U~Witch undead hero do you get first?

Discussion in 'Warcraft Strategy Guides' started by FleshRipper[pd], Dec 6, 2002.

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Witch undead hero do you get first?

  1. Dreadlord

    25 vote(s)
    37.9%
  2. Death Knight

    32 vote(s)
    48.5%
  3. Lich

    9 vote(s)
    13.6%
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  1. Reduio

    Reduio Member!

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    i use DL bc of vampiric aura and carrion swarp
    good lvl 6 spell
    vamp aura good for early creeping too
    sleep is useless
    - do most of u pepo learn death pact and dark ritual?
    seems good at lvl 3 but a waste of an unit
     
  2. RageWinterchill

    RageWinterchill Member!

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    It's not the units that make Undead powerful, it's the heroes. Sacrificing one unit for the sake of saving a hero (DK's Death Pact) or making it ablt to cast its powerful spells (Lich's Dark Ritual) is certainly worth the sacrifice. Although I don't recommend using it on expensive units like Frost Wyrms.

    And Sleep useless? I beg to differ. I've found that Sleep abuse is actually very effective at keeping a potentially lethal enemy hero (BM/TC/DH) out of action for a while, or at least inhibiting its combat abilities. Vamp Aura is not good for early creeping, as the 15% return is nothing for Ghouls, as it doesn't nearly give back enough HP until later. I'd still opt for going DK first and the leveling up the DL as fast as I could as a 2nd hero (I get my 2nd hero out fast by habit).
     
  3. Masta uf da newbs

    Masta uf da newbs Member!

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    U people really underestimate the lich go lich then get a dk
     
  4. Sogeking

    Sogeking Shithead

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    i go DK then DL....heres why

    DK skills:
    Death Coil-GOOD SKILL WHEN ADDED WITH VAMP AURA!!!!
    (take units hp spell)-well, i usually go ambo, so, DK's dieing i say, lil ambo! take his hp and im back at max!
    unholy aura-when can u go wrong when u attack much faster than usual? add unholy frenzy to ghouls+ghoul frenzy as well as unholy aura=CRAZY ASS GHOUL!!!
    ressurect-MOST UNDERESTIMATED SKILL!!! send an army into enemy base, if u lose 7, ressurect! they back!

    DL skill:
    Bat thing-useless
    dun remember-useless
    vamp aura-Add this with DK skills....
    summon infernal-an extra unit always helps! (try and sneak it behind towers)

    What i do: Get DK first, get DC skill first and when i get DL get vamp aura....now think about it, my troops get their hp back pretty well with vamp aura, a guys dieng, death coil! now hes at full life! useful? YES!
    Heres a scenario, i have over 9 ambos, DK+DL and a few necros here and there as well as at least 2 crypt fiends(anti air). now, we all know its a bitch bringin an ambos life down...well, with a death coil, i almost completly heal him! and think about how they gain hp per hit....necros cast unholy frenzy....so now, ambos attack fast, lose hp for that, and then get it back wit vamp aura....^_^
     
  5. x42bn6

    x42bn6 Retired Staff

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    DL/DK will work, depending on how you feel about this. But Lich isn't too good as early aura for Ghouls and Fiends works really well.
     
  6. Kluff

    Kluff New Member

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    The hero I pick usually depends on the map. If there are a lot of Golems I will not pick DL first because vamp does not work agaisnt them but unholy still helps your units. But on a map with no Golems like Plunder Isle I go DL becuase vamp helps a lot.
     
  7. RageWinterchill

    RageWinterchill Member!

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    Lich, I've found, is the best hero for a rush.

    Ok, please, stop laughing. But seriously, few spells own tier 1 units as well as Frost Nova does. At level 2, with good micro and adding Ghouls, it's nearly game over because of Dark Ritual.

    I'll post up a more in-depth analysis later. Well, maybe. For now, I gotta go to class. :(
     
  8. Biske

    Biske BattleForums Senior Member

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    Yeah, I go DK first cuz of his Coil and Aura, then since Rage has Brainwashed me:)D) I get the Lich as second for his killer(litertally) Frost Nova Move.
     
  9. x42bn6

    x42bn6 Retired Staff

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    If all's good for me, I'll make all three heroes quickly.
     
  10. RageWinterchill

    RageWinterchill Member!

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    *waves a watch in front of Chibi's face* You are getting sleepy... Sleepy... Sleepy... You will obey my every command... :lucifer

    Ok, as promised, the whole Lich first bit (Chibi, you listening? :p)

    When you plan on doing a rush, using the Lich first has its merits. For one thing, the Lich can cause much more damage than either the DK or the DL could do.

    The DK is capable of extending the life of the Ghouls, because his sniping at that point does a measly 75 damage. Not very impressive. When he hits level 2, he'll be able to make harassing much more efficient but not much else. In a rush, you look for damage dealt, not how fast you can run out.

    The DL can cast Carrion twice, and will hit up to 3 targets. Yay. Sleep would be the better option, but Sleep Surrounds are more difficult at that stage because there aren't enough Ghouls. More often than not, the enemy hero will find a way to slip out.

    On the other hand, the Lich has the game's single most destructive spell: Frost Nova. With 4-5 Ghouls and a Lich, you can dish out a good deal of damage to the tier 1 units that are doubtless available at this time. Rushing with a Lich is best used against UD or Humans, as these are the races whose basic units suffer the most against Nova (unless there's an NE going for Archers). It's also supposed to work against NE, but I have some doubts. I sincerely doubt this will against Orc. This requires considerable micro, as the Lich is a very fragile hero, though his damage output is extremely high. If you can keep the Lich alive to reach level 2, the game is almost a done deal because of Dark Ritual. You should be upgrading to HotD during this entire time and trying to keep casualties to a minimum. Make sure to save up at least 500 gold and 100 wood for the DK, because a Lich is nothing later on without the DK's support.
     
  11. RageWinterchill

    RageWinterchill Member!

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    I have a replay of (a very rusty) me doing this in a 2v2. The enemy was not very good, but I felt I did pretty well for someone who hadn't played for like 3 weeks (you'd be amazed what short periods of not playing can do to me...)
     
  12. Biske

    Biske BattleForums Senior Member

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    Hell yeah Rage! I sometimes get bored of W3, and then come back 2-4 weeks later and find my skill had flown away while I was playing the other games. So every month or so, I'm on an adventure to find my prowess, and every time, I find it, I loose it, only to find it again!
     
  13. RageWinterchill

    RageWinterchill Member!

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    Yeah, I know what you mean! I always know it's gonna happen, but I hate it anyway... -_-;;;

    Oh yeah, and the replay is totally kaputt. Figures that 1.06 would come out the day I posted that up... :hbut
     
  14. Biske

    Biske BattleForums Senior Member

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    LOL!!!
     
  15. x42bn6

    x42bn6 Retired Staff

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    I think 1.06 came too close to TFT's release.

    Too bad you had to suffer for it.
     
  16. Sauron5761

    Sauron5761 Member!

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    i like to get dl or lich for the sleep and frost nova usually i like to go with lich though
     
  17. x42bn6

    x42bn6 Retired Staff

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    I prefer DL for aura. Rage will yell at me now for not going DK. I listen, Rage!
     
  18. RageWinterchill

    RageWinterchill Member!

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    Grrr, I had this whole lecture on the Undead heroes ready to post, but then my post was rejected for too many smilies, so I press the Back button and BAM, it's all gone. Since my fingers hurt, I don't feel like typing up the entire thing all over again, so I'll just explain it in a nutshell.

    The Lich is a bad creeper. Nova is to be used in combat, Armor isn't good enough, Dark Ritual just kills your Ghouls, which is the last thing you want. You want your units ALIVE, not dead, when creeping. He can't tank or create tanks either. Requires lots of Cannibalizing and Ghoul rotation, both of which are too time-consuming to use often. Not good.

    The DL is ok, just outclassed by the DK. Vampiric doesn't give back enough HP (only 1 or 2 per hit), Carrion can only be used twice, and Sleep can only be used twice to help you creep only slightly stronger creeps. And he's totally helpless against spell immune creeps. Mediocre tank, doesn't recover his own damage very quickly, and requires a lot of Cannibalizing, which wastes too much time. So so, but no cigar.

    The DK has Coil, which greatly lengthens the lives of Ghouls and can be used for on-the-fly high HP healing. In addition, Unholy Aura allows him and his units to move quickly from creep camp to creep camp and recover some HP along the way. He requires less time Cannibalizing than either the DL or the Lich, saving more time, and allowing more creeps to be killed, thus earning more items, more experience, and more gold.

    Sorry I couldn't be more indepth, but Professor Winterchill's (ph.D in Undead Studies! :D) fingers hurt like hell from the other one. Oh, and x42, I don't yell. I only remind you of the errors of your ways. :D I'll be more thorough if anyone wants me to be (trust me, you won't like it).
     
  19. x42bn6

    x42bn6 Retired Staff

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    OK, stop laughing, Rage, I just used DK first and oh shoot, I liked it. Now stop laughing! Just didn't like it when it reached a 'passive' ultimate so early.
     
  20. RageWinterchill

    RageWinterchill Member!

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    Mwahahahahahaha.... :lucifer :lucifer :lucifer
     
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