Just to clear something out

[Guru]

Originally posted by LawrenceOfArabia
i didnt see much in terms of missiles. are any american misslies hard to detect on radar? if so, f22's can see su37's a long time before the su37 can see it due to the fact the su37 doesnt have stealth and the f22 does as well as having some of the best radar technology in the world. IF there are stealthlike missiles, then how do u expect to even shootdown a f22 because by the time they get in range of you your toast.

Nah, the missles aren't stealth, but by the time they are launched it is too late, and the SU-37 is shot down

Originally posted by Otmorosok
Read all my links, i'll keep them coming and watch the movie, your F-22 cant do that.

You links are saying in some cases saying how the F-22 is better, and the other links are not legitimate. And because the SU-37 can do a fancy air trick is not going to save it when the missles of the F-22 hit.

Also, thats not an arguement. So I take it you agree the F-22 is better.

 

[LawrenceOfArabia]

hmm, but still effective. f22's wouldnt be easy to drop, because when you launch a missle, the f22 will drop a decoy and the enemy missle will miss the f22 and hit the decoy. i believe some of our missles tech is extremely good, and they have a more computerized system than normal manual shots.

 

[Kuzmich]

Originally posted by Guru
Nah, the missles aren't stealth, but by the time they are launched it is too late, and the SU-37 is shot down



You links are saying in some cases saying how the F-22 is better, and the other links are not legitimate. And because the SU-37 can do a fancy air trick is not going to save it when the missles of the F-22 hit.

Also, thats not an arguement. So I take it you agree the F-22 is better.

Read the rest of my links, oh and it will help in combat to escape from a rocket all the pilot has to do is make a free fall, and he can do that.

 

[Kuzmich]

Read the plasma shield link and the other link, and do watch the movie it is cool.

 

[amrtin77]

we know the SU37 is the most manueverable plane. while doing a backflip it can actually be moving backwards at one point. its insane to dogfight that, btu there is no need. with the curves and design that make it so manueverable you cannot have the triangular stealth shape.

because of its manueverability the su37 is my favorite airplane, but i dont think it stands a chance against an f22 for the simple fact that the f22 will see it long before it sees the f22

 

[LawrenceOfArabia]

adding to what u said amrtin, with the missle the f22 has, it can hit it when it first sees it, or, think out a plan of what to do.

 

[Kuzmich]

Read my links, read about SU-37 Berkut, its stealth, its cheap its manuerable. Oh and about the missiles, i would like to see the link, besides if you read my links more carefully then you see that SU-37 can be armed with any kind of missile. And we do have guided missiles, its nothing special everyone has them now, oh and there are little things called thermo guided missiles, they are attracted by heat, the heat f-22s engines generate. Your stealth wont help agaisnt one of those babies, and we will have our own stealth plain soon, manuverauble, cheap, undetectible and ready to kick ass, see my links on page 8.

 

[amrtin77]

so u just gunna fire a random missile and hope it locks onto heat? what if it comes after one of your guys?

 

[Kuzmich]

Read my links about russian stealth plain, find everything you looking for in there. Besides even if its not the best it is one of the best, and it is made by us Russians with all our limited funding we still hold strong, besides Bertruk is promising to make stealth available without damaging maneurablity and speed, after Betruk comes out skies are owned by White, Blue, and Red.

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by Otmorosok
Read my links, read about SU-37 Berkut, its stealth, its cheap its manuerable. Oh and about the missiles, i would like to see the link, besides if you read my links more carefully then you see that SU-37 can be armed with any kind of missile. And we do have guided missiles, its nothing special everyone has them now, oh and there are little things called thermo guided missiles, they are attracted by heat, the heat f-22s engines generate. Your stealth wont help agaisnt one of those babies, and we will have our own stealth plain soon, manuverauble, cheap, undetectible and ready to kick ass, see my links on page 8.

Hold your horses there....Firstly, the Berkut isn't very good steatlh, it can easily be detected and shot down. That link you posted states it didnt match up to the US steatrh.

As for the heat seaking missles, that wont work.

http://www.f-22raptor.com/st_getstealthy.php

Take a look at the link. For the US to gain maximum steatlh, it had to meet more requirements than just invisible to radar.

1. It must be very hard to detect on radar.
2. The hot emissions from the engines must be minimal.
3. It must be quiet
4. Its engines should not produce contrails or exhaust smoke in cold atmosphere
5. It should be hard to see with the human eye

That explains why it is a lot harder to pick up or see with the eye than you think.

You heat seakers simply wont work. Neither will the radar guided ones. You're running out of weaponry arent you? Not to mention your trying to find and shoot at it while dodging a couple of sidewinders and an M61A2 20mm cannon. The SU-37 has not chance at fighting back.

Read my links about russian stealth plain, find everything you looking for in there. Besides even if its not the best it is one of the best, and it is made by us Russians with all our limited funding we still hold strong, besides Bertruk is promising to make stealth available without damaging maneurablity and speed, after Betruk comes out skies are owned by White, Blue, and Red.

The Bertuk has so many flaws its not even funny. It gives off way too much heat, and can easily be picked up by infared, and it isn't very good stealth. It can be seen quite a bit.

The F-22 is far better than the Bertuk, even more so than the SU-37. The US can pick your plane up through multiple ways, including infared satelites. Once the position is found, the F-22 will be on it and a second later it will toast it.

Also, you do realize red white and blue are Americas colors, right?

 

[LawrenceOfArabia]

i believe the f22s will have the ability to use their own radar system hooked up to a sattelite in each, so a copilot would be the guy that tells the pilot where to go and what to shoot.

 

[Kuzmich]

We have satelites too, and we have ways of blocking your satalites, remember those Russian thingies your forces found in Iraq, that was something we gave to them 10 years ago, now we have much greater technology. Did you read about the plasma shield? And there did you get the info about the heat?

Read this about why US might not consider to make F-22 and it also says that stealth technology doesnt work on the new radars, which will come to life in next 35 years, but your government is not stupid its not gonna waist loads of money on something which will be no use after 3 decades. On the other hand plasma shield technology Bertruck is going to use is much cheaper.
http://64.177.207.201/pages/8_79.html

 

[Guru]

You have satelittes, but they can't pick up infared since the Raptor gives off so little heat. Even if you block our satelittes, your stealth, at certain times, can be picked up on rador, your engines produce exhaust in the cold, its not quiet, and the raptor has much better camoflauging.

Your stealth isnt a match for ours.

 

[Kuzmich]

read my link find the answers, oh and our plain will be the middle between stealth and manuverability, the plasma shield will not decrease the spped or the manuerability of Beteruk, besides there is a lot of stuff not told to public our government is making.
Read my link about the arguments against F-22, now you said something about F-22 being quiter and producing less heat, there do you get this info?

 

[amrtin77]

the f22 is too good to let go because of money, it better be pushed through. but if you want to talk about that the Bertruk is not going into production. it is a test for future techknowledgies

 

[Kuzmich]

Oh Betruk is going into production, it got the Federal funding, plus the money it got from selling Su-27 to China. Now did you read about the radar technology problem? If you spend that money now on all that research, that money is gone and not coming back. Besides there is no threat for which F-22 is needed, you are not at war with Russia, and it doesn't look like you going to be. Same goes for europian union and their Typhoon, other palins can be as easily handled by earlier models of F series, F-15 for example. Oh and what type of plain was the first that was shot down during Kosovo? Stealth. My link. And people did you read about the plasma shield or not?
this is about the plasma shield
http://robocat.users.btopenworld.com/su37.htm
read this again, all of it
http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAFAQ/six5th_5.html
Stuff in this link is amazing read all of it, i mean thats almost science fiction, but its true.

Go down in this link to find more about plasma stealth
http://www.totalairdominance.50megs.com/articles/stealth.htm

Oh and dont forget our other plain, MIG-35 a little thing NATO niknamed raptor killer, raptor meaning F-22. It uses plasma stealth to the fullest, its far less manuverable then SU-37 but it uses its stealth capabilities to its fullest. One problem our government will have to choose one program to fund, right now its looking like we choose manuverability over great stealth capability. Well it only means that our government can count, in 35 years stealth will be nothing cause of new radars, and we going to have most practical plain out there. It doesnt look like we goin to have a war with US in next 35 years so whats the point of waisting extra money, if all stealth will be useless in 3 decades any way? Read my links again before questioning my sources.

 

[Ntrik_]

hmm i wonder why this thread suddenly turned into massive arguement about US vs Russia... Otmorosok is jus trying to clearing up that he has respect for US too (I think)

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by Otmorosok
Oh Betruk is going into production, it got the Federal funding, plus the money it got from selling Su-27 to China. Now did you read about the radar technology problem? If you spend that money now on all that research, that money is gone and not coming back. Besides there is no threat for which F-22 is needed, you are not at war with Russia, and it doesn't look like you going to be. Same goes for europian union and their Typhoon, other palins can be as easily handled by earlier models of F series, F-15 for example. Oh and what type of plain was the first that was shot down during Kosovo? Stealth. My link. And people did you read about the plasma shield or not?
this is about the plasma shield
http://robocat.users.btopenworld.com/su37.htm

You shot down one stealth? Big whoop. Out of the thousands of missons flown over enemy territory, one shot down is a pretty good ratio, with the US coming out on top.

As for the plasma shield, it gives the same effect as the raptors style of stealth. However, your plane leaves trails, is louder, gives off heat, no camoflauge, et cetra. There are many ways to detect your's that aren't a problem with the raptor.

Also, the plasma shield is only a rumor. Gossip. Aka Bullshit. Your link stated it.

http://www.totalairdominance.50megs.com/articles/stealth.htm

Oh and dont forget our other plain, MIG-35 a little thing NATO niknamed raptor killer, raptor meaning F-22. It uses plasma stealth to the fullest, its far less manuverable then SU-37 but it uses its stealth capabilities to its fullest. One problem our government will have to choose one program to fund, right now its looking like we choose manuverability over great stealth capability. Well it only means that our government can count, in 35 years stealth will be nothing cause of new radars, and we going to have most practical plain out there. It doesnt look like we goin to have a war with US in next 35 years so whats the point of waisting extra money, if all stealth will be useless in 3 decades any way? Read my links again before questioning my sources.

The thing is, the F-22 is a match for what you will have in 35 years, but lets not forget how much more advanced the American research programS are. We can afford to fund more research, therefore the more time we have, the farther we will be ahead of the rest of the world.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

do u realy want a british experts opinion? will you listen? will you believe a site more than the person who builds the things? and about the heat signature issue the 117b version gives off heat but now they use the air current to mask the exhaust. if u want to ask this expert (it aint me his name = keith) just post. oh btw ofc the russian site will say our planes will garantee air domanance and the american sites will say the same. it realy depends on the pilot but pilots has little control now... btw the raptor cant use radar without being detected so no matter how good the raptors radar is they cant realy use it = /

EDIT: ok from the wise words of keith...(he didnt write this this is my interpretation of his words) The russians made vector control FIRST so itll be superior(because they had more time to improve) they havent atually started making the raptor, they have 12 proto-types though the americans are just playing with vector thrust. The raptor hasnt concentrated on any particular thing EG: figher... bomber.. ect when designing a multi-role aircraft there is allways compromise. its ok saying that a raptor could get close with stealth and fire a missile but it still has to hit it. he said that rapter and the su are on par.. though he also said in a dogfight the su would win hands down

 

[Kuzmich]

Originally posted by Guru
You shot down one stealth? Big whoop. Out of the thousands of missons flown over enemy territory, one shot down is a pretty good ratio, with the US coming out on top.

As for the plasma shield, it gives the same effect as the raptors style of stealth. However, your plane leaves trails, is louder, gives off heat, no camoflauge, et cetra. There are many ways to detect your's that aren't a problem with the raptor.



The thing is, the F-22 is a match for what you will have in 35 years, but lets not forget how much more advanced the American research programS are. We can afford to fund more research, therefore the more time we have, the farther we will be ahead of the rest of the world.

Still you can just keep it in research stage, whats the point of making those? No one powerful enough is threatening you right now. Besides plasma has its advantages, 1 it allows plains maneurablility and speed to remain the same, second it is cheaper. Now about you being ahead of the rest of the world, don't forget that other countries are growing, you will soon be getting a competitors that will be able to afford as much research as you, and although Russia wont be the first of those who can afford everything, it wont be the last, and we done so much stuff without having a lot of money. Dont forget who build the best medium tank of WW2, and dont forget who invented IL series. We got smart people just need more money to make their ideas to become reality, and we will get that money in the near future.