The United States.

[dreamcrusader]

I was agaisnt the war on terror because we all know that war on words achieve nothing

Wow, just wow. I dont think I even want to argue with a person that says something as pathetic and dull as that. Just to let you know by the way, we arnt using words to fight the war on Terror, were using weapons.

 

[B~E]

Wow, just wow. I dont think I even want to argue with a person that says something as pathetic and dull as that. Just to let you know by the way, we arnt using words to fight the war on Terror, were using weapons.

Oh God, I'm so sick and tired of you posting replies without actualy arguying anything at all. Its been 3 pages, and you haven't even managed to succesfully come up with ONE counter-argument agaisnt anything, at all. You just post 8 or 9 lines of pure bullshit. There is absolutly no substence from which to debate in your replies.
There isn't any argument or discussion in this thread, its just a handfull of forumers posting critisism of Bush and the United States, without any meaningfull opposition, without mentioning a pathetic offtopic part about Russia caused by somebody.
This is so depressing.

I just posted a 630 words reply, and here again, as you managed to do in the rest of this thread, you escaped from the responsability of replying anything significant. And how did you managed to do it this time ? You quoted one litle sentence from my post, a sentence that make sense but you failed to understand, as I will explain later, and you poorly try to scoff it, and your not even trying to explain and prove why.

And what you did is even more laughable, because if we would have had your litle contemptuous attitude of not replying because we find a one-liner "dull", nobody would have ever made a single reply after your opening post of this thread, or after any of your post, for that matter.

You whant me to prove it ? Ok, lets find your pathetic and dull one-liner.

-Not just cause their all liberal assholes but because they are afriad of his power.
-Why do you think that they hate Bush so much? Because hes tough and shows that we will fight you if your a threat to us and our allies.
-I and many other American cant stand France. Their pussy liberals and they want to control the US.
-And we arnt losing in Iraq! So we arnt falling.
-2nd you other countrys arnt educated properly.
-We didnt go into Iraq alone. We have the new Iraqie government on our side with troops, UK, and countless other countrys giving us Aid in the country.
-There are a few news organizations that are great. Like Fox News.
-But the former Iraq military was one of the strongest in the world.
-Your stance on the war is pathetic.
-If you can stand my intolorable spelling at least.
-Other countries are afriad of his power.
-I DO know that a speak for alot of Americans when I say I hate France.
-First of all to Tronga Monga you cant just "buy" mustard gas. It is agianst the "rules of war" .
-Bush uses his power much in a much more threating way to other countrys. -Hes taken a stand for America saying perrty much "dont **** with us" and other countrys are afriad of that.
-"Stop repeating the same BS over and over again and start trying to prove some of it."
You want me to prove that? Its called the "War in Iraq" at the moment.
-I meant you cant just say I think im going to go to the store today and buy some mustard gas. It has to be conducted in secret. Since its illegal that is.
-Maybe you should get your head out of a Michal Moore film and look at the real world.

Phew ! Holy mother of God ! Give me a minute, while I go whipe the shit from my face after having read all that crap !
Ok, I'm back.
Those lines that are quoted are all statements that are either completly false, unbacked/baseless, or both. And whats worst of all, you just keep repeating them again and again, like a derenged monkey trowing his poo.
So this is why you refusing to argue my post simply because there is a line that you didn't understand is as absurd as it is frustrative.

===========


Ok, now, this is the part I'll explain the statement of mine that you quoted but didn't understand.

The Wars on words. Ok, so far, when a country lauched a war agaisnt a word, what he really did was to lauch a war agaisnt a "meme", a "concept" or an "habit". Lets take for exemple, wars of religions. You can either try to convert every member of the opposit religion (its impossible), or try to whipe them all of the map (which is possible, but you need extraordinary means to achieve that). So, a war of religions isn't really something realistic.
Or war agaisnt drugs.... Well, just get information on the situation in Colombia, or take a walk in the street of Washington, or any other great city, and you'll understand how failed this war is.
Or war on poverty : not only so far, collectivly, we haven't achieved anything meaningful, not only with globalisation the abyss betwen poors and rich is widening, but in theory, our capitalist society need lower class of poorer citizen.
Or war agaisnt, say, terrorisme ? This one is théoricaly impossible to win because terrorism is spawned by feeling of resentment and hostility agaisnt the hostil actions of the United State, and your only solution to terrorism is war. Now do you see the vicious circle drawing itself ? Of course, if your country had the mean and ressource to police the entire Third World to hunt down every terrorist organisation, it wouldn't be so bad, but you just dont.

Finaly, a war on a word is generaly a war on a general concept, or on a meme, that, historicaly, has proven to be to much of a collossal task to be successfully achieved.
So, when I said that " I was agaisnt the war on terror because we all know that war on words achieve nothing", this is what I ment. Understand now ?

Just to let you know by the way, we arnt using words to fight the war on Terror, were using weapons.

I've never, ever said ANYTHING about the means with which you fight this war, so I really dont know why you decided to plug that sentence in your post. Maybe you sudently had to take a dump ?

And take off this quote from your sig, it actualy make me look good.

 

[Kamikaze]

And whats worst of all, you just keep repeating them again and again, like a derenged monkey trowing his poo.

after having read through the nonsensical crap i've lost all hope in humanity and have decided that my time would be better spent teaching monkeys to type so they can take dreamcrusaders place giving him more time to kiss bushs ass.

this is the second time you've been compared to a monkey dreamcrusader.
BAD DREAMCRUSADER, BAD!

GET BACK IN YOUR CAGE!

 

[Sakuhta]

Now, now Kami... don't scare away the customers..

 

[Tipsy]

Well, im very sorry, and I'm saying this in a polite manner, but I'm not certain I undestand what you mean in that last statement. Could you please reformulate it or develope it for the sake of discussion ? I mean, so what if Bush changed the focus of the public opinion to Irak, what did this achieve, what is your point ? Was there one

This was just to point out regardless of the reasons saying Iraq supported terrorism and is a front for terrorist organizations shown before the war (which was pretty much all null) Iraq is now the front on the war on terrorism. The point isn't that Bush changed the eye of the public to Iraq, he changed the eye of terrorists to Iraq. Summing all of that up, all it means is that present day Iraq is the front on the war on terrorism even though it was not before.

And two quick quotes

I DO know that a speak for alot of Americans when I say I hate France

I have already proven that the guy was telling the truth when he said this. This statement is NOT "completly false, unbacked/baseless, or both", as you said. This statement is completely true and backed up.

But the former Iraq military was one of the strongest in the world

This statement is also true. Iraq was rated as one of the strongest militaries in the world. Was it a weak military? Yes it was, but it was one of the strongest in the world. That may sound hypocritical, but all it means is that the gap between Iraq and the next most powerful military in the world is huge. This statement is completely true though.

Oh God, I'm so sick and tired of you posting replies without actualy arguying anything at all. Its been 3 pages, and you haven't even managed to succesfully come up with ONE counter-argument agaisnt anything, at all. You just post 8 or 9 lines of pure bullshit. There is absolutly no substence from which to debate in your replies.
There isn't any argument or discussion in this thread, its just a handfull of forumers posting critisism of Bush and the United States, without any meaningfull opposition, without mentioning a pathetic offtopic part about Russia caused by somebody.
This is so depressing.

Every post I have had so far has been counter arguments and you have only responded with:
"(note to Tipsy: I 'will' reply to your post as soon as I have the time to.)"
You should stop kicking the people who can't talk and actually respond to what I have said before you generalize everyone against you as not having a single counter-argument.

And about my argument concerning the paradox of democracy in foreign culture, remember, it was the first or second post in the topic, it has yet do be argued over. Does that mean that you agree with me on the fact that the US mission is doomed ? Or is your silence just a way of saying outloud "I dont know" ?

I'll respond to this, here is his paradox of democracy quoted just for the reference of everyone:

Democratisation conflict with Westernisation, and politicians in non-Western societies dont win election by showing how pro-Wetsern they are, but electoral competition insteed stimulate them to fashion what they believe will appeal to the mass and those are ethnic, nationalist and religious caracter.

You'll never have a durable democracy in Irak, your stuck there defending something that will never live on its own, your stuck there for a very long time, and your stuck there alone.
How long can your frail economy support this war?

Just to point this out real quick, this is just my opinion, not a widespread american opinion. I personally believe the concept of a democracy is as failed as the concept of communism. Communism is the perfect form of government for if everyone in the world was a perfect person. Democracy works on the weaknesses of humans to get them to work and support the economy. There will never and has never, in my opinion, ever been a durable democracy and there probably will never be one. This is probably completely off the point you were trying to give, but this is just my opinion of democracy.

And just to say this because if I don't you'll probably assume it. I do not support anarchy, I do believe in a centralized government, I just believe democracy is a failed concept that preys off of the flaws in humans.

 

[dreamcrusader]

Lets take for exemple, wars of religions. You can either try to convert every member of the opposit religion (its impossible), or try to whipe them all of the map (which is possible, but you need extraordinary means to achieve that). So, a war of religions isn't really something realistic.

Isnt something realistic? Most of the wars in the Ancient and some in the industrial era were over religion. Just goes to show how much you know about history.

And the reason that I kept repeating myself is because, everyone seemed to ignore that facts I brought up and whined about something else.

And I will not take that qoute out of my sig. All wars are fought over words to an extent. And that sentace which i qouted shows how completly stupid you are on a war topic. If your agianst the war on terror then lets just let them countinue to attack us in airplanes and see what happens. If your agianst the war on terror than lets just go ahead and all kill ourselves because we will get beheaded anyway. If your agianst the war on terror then you are as coward as a person can get. Period.

And to kamazazi I think Black Enthusim would be better compard to a monkey because he would run and scream in terror(just like monkeys do) when he is getting chased by a terrorist and going to be beheaded.

PS: Black~Enthusiasm Please dont post the picture of the Child Praying, its not politicaly correct. (sarcasim)

What country do you live in anyway? If not America then I understand why you are such a coward. Your country probly didnt loose 2000+ people on 9/11/01

 

[Kuzmich]

Isnt something realistic? Most of the wars in the Ancient and some in the industrial era were over religion. Just goes to show how much you know about history.

Heh you are a moron. Most wars in ancient hostory were over expansion. Also he is french canadian also you are a coward, my country suffered so much more then yours that your countries suffering is nothing, but we don't go jumping on some random nation that didn't do anything to us. Get an education, idiot.

 

[TrongaMonga]

What country do you live in anyway? If not America then I understand why you are such a coward. Your country probly didnt loose 2000+ people on 9/11/01

So, Iraqi people, who lost tenths of thousands of civilians already in this war, would have a reason to invade your country? Of course not, you saved them getting rid of the ditactor they so much hated :rolleyes

 

[B)ushid(o]

Isnt something realistic? Most of the wars in the Ancient and some in the industrial era were over religion. Just goes to show how much you know about history.

and how many were successful?

And the reason that I kept repeating myself is because, everyone seemed to ignore that facts I brought up and whined about something else.

What facts? You've presented opinion in just about every single one of your posts.

And I will not take that qoute out of my sig. All wars are fought over words to an extent. And that sentace which i qouted shows how completly stupid you are on a war topic. If your agianst the war on terror then lets just let them countinue to attack us in airplanes and see what happens. If your agianst the war on terror than lets just go ahead and all kill ourselves because we will get beheaded anyway. If your agianst the war on terror then you are as coward as a person can get. Period.

How the **** do you fight "terrorism"? It's not a nation, you can't bomb terrorism away. It's not just one person, you can't assassinate it. It's not conventional warfare being used, it's guerilla tactics. It's like the common cold, spreads quickly and it's incurable.

 

[Kuzmich]

And I will not take that qoute out of my sig. All wars are fought over words to an extent. And that sentace which i qouted shows how completly stupid you are on a war topic. If your agianst the war on terror then lets just let them countinue to attack us in airplanes and see what happens. If your agianst the war on terror than lets just go ahead and all kill ourselves because we will get beheaded anyway. If your agianst the war on terror then you are as coward as a person can get. Period.

The thing is that war in Iraq is not a war on terror, its a war to get oil to US, and spread its influence. Chechnya is a real war on terror, and you are an ignorant coward who keeps whing and does not realize that his words are bullshit.

 

[dreamcrusader]

Heh you are a moron. Most wars in ancient hostory were over expansion. Also he is french canadian also you are a coward, my country suffered so much more then yours that your countries suffering is nothing, but we don't go jumping on some random nation that didn't do anything to us. Get an education, idiot.

A French!!!! LOL, No wonder I figured I was tlaking to a ****ed up lefty loonie.

And your "religious wars" Just a few anyway:

British revolution and civil war? Religious. Puritians came to the American colonies from England because they were being persacuted, so that can be a Religoius tension that eventually leads to our revolution. And your country never jumped on one that did nothing to you? How about your Pact with Nazi Germany agianst Poland in WW2? How about your war agianst Afghanastan. Our Chechnya? Seems like your the one that needs an education on your own country. And you bring up no other point other than the war in Iraq is for Oil. Yet there is no proof what so ever that we have been taking there oil. You just belive what any dumbass liberal like Michal Moore will tell you so that way you can fuel your hatred towards America.

Bushido: I never said that Ancient and Industrial wars on Religion were "succesfull" But it is a common topic that starts wars.


And Terrorism is much like Guerrila warfare. You have to engage it or you will only get ambushed time and time agian.

And I have posted facts in bullitien form in this topic. About how Saddam has attacked our allies. How he hasnt followed the 17 rules he agreed to after the Gulf War. How he has massed murdered Kurds all over his own country. And the basic threat that he made since he harbored terrorists in his own country. Those are not opinions, those are facts. So just pull your head out of the Liberal propaganda and look at it for a different way for a sec.

 

[Kuzmich]

A French!!!! LOL, No wonder I figured I was tlaking to a ****ed up lefty loonie.

And your "religious wars" Just a few anyway:

British revolution and civil war? Religious. Puritians came to the American colonies from England because they were being persacuted, so that can be a Religoius tension that eventually leads to our revolution. And your country never jumped on one that did nothing to you? How about your Pact with Nazi Germany agianst Poland in WW2? How about your war agianst Afghanastan. Our Chechnya? Seems like your the one that needs an education on your own country. And you bring up no other point other than the war in Iraq is for Oil. Yet there is no proof what so ever that we have been taking there oil. You just belive what any dumbass liberal like Michal Moore will tell you so that way you can fuel your hatred towards America.

First, indeed you are retarded, most wars were over exapnsion, a 100 year war, american revolution was a revolution meaning change of gov't it had nothing to do with religion. War with Chechnya and Afghanistan had nothing to do with religion, atleast on my countries part, it is pure expansion and growth of influence. Once again you are wrong. Maybe you should listen to Michael Moore, you have already heard so many lies, maybe its the time you should learn some truth.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

If your agianst the war on terror then lets just let them countinue to attack us in airplanes and see what happens. If your agianst the war on terror than lets just go ahead and all kill ourselves because we will get beheaded anyway.

You really think a terrorist is going to go to you and just behead you. You think that they all enjoy it? Just like you, they have been mislead, they think what they do is right, they try to fight your oppressive government. If Bush really wants to make you safe he would not get involved. The more he pulls the more the noose tightens around his neck. The more you invade countries and piss off terrorists the more people will stand up against you, the more organisations can recruit. There are so many countries that don't get attacked, why do you think that is? Because they keep there ****ing noses out, they can use all their time campaigning for things that give the population a better standard of life. Terrorists don't kill people for the fun of it. Remember kenith bigley? How they kept him for a while and tried to secure the release of some prisoners. The prisoners were bad but it just proves that it was for a reason. They took Japanese people hostages, why? They were saying "get the **** out of Iraq".

If your against the war on terror then you are as coward as a person can get. Period.

That is the most retarded thing I have heard. You are saying people are safer because of the ludicrous war and you are saying people who don't support are cowards. So people who don't want to be safe from terrorists are cowards........ right..................

 

[dreamcrusader]

First, indeed you are retarded, most wars were over exapnsion, a 100 year war, american revolution was a revolution meaning change of gov't it had nothing to do with religion. War with Chechnya and Afghanistan had nothing to do with religion, atleast on my countries part, it is pure expansion and growth of influence. Once again you are wrong. Maybe you should listen to Michael Moore, you have already heard so many lies, maybe its the time you should learn some truth.

I wasnt saying Chechnya and Polond were religious wars, but pointing out that "your" country has jumped on many others. And alot of people feld to the American colonies because they were being persacuted by religion. So it was an Influance later on. Ill admit that alot of wars are fought over expansion, but back in Ancient times when athism wasnt as tolorant, religion was a seroius matter. And fueled alot of wars. And if you think Michal Moore is "the truth" heres a great articale for you to read. Ive posted it before and its very long so you probly wont read it. But theres all the proof you need on it: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

But your just a liberal Russian. You will belive anything as long as it make America look bad or sound bad. And dont say you arnt a liberal damnit because your just preaching liberal lies and deciets. If you belive anything that Michal Moore has to say and belive that The War In Iraq is because of Oil, well thats as liberal as it get(second to france that is)



And to OXR: The only way you can be safe from terror is to fight it.

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

And to OXR: The only way you can be safe from terror is to fight it.

Then how does IN YOUR view make people who don't want to be safe cowards.

 

[Kuzmich]

I wasnt saying Chechnya and Polond were religious wars, but pointing out that "your" country has jumped on many others.

And when did i say it didn't jump on others? We talked about this before, Russia same as US is an imerialistic country, but unlike you we do not hide our intentions behind lies of spreading freedom, like you do.

And alot of people feld to the American colonies because they were being persacuted by religion. So it was an Influance later on. Ill admit that alot of wars are fought over expansion, but back in Ancient times when athism wasnt as tolorant, religion was a seroius matter. And fueled alot of wars. And if you think Michal Moore is "the truth" heres a great articale for you to read. Ive posted it before and its very long so you probly wont read it. But theres all the proof you need on it: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

But your just a liberal Russian. You will belive anything as long as it make America look bad or sound bad. And dont say you arnt a liberal damnit because your just preaching liberal lies and deciets. If you belive anything that Michal Moore has to say and belive that The War In Iraq is because of Oil, well thats as liberal as it get(second to france that is)

That link has the same chance of being a lie as Farenheit 9/11, unless you show me a neutral source speaking on the matter i will consider your link a lie.
Another thing, so you say that everyone who doesn't like america is a liberal? Alright then, i am a liberal and proud of it, atleast i am not an ignorant redneck who is ready to believe into the first piece of bullshit Fox news throws at him.

And to OXR: The only way you can be safe from terror is to fight it.

Then why aren't you doing that? Why are wasting men, money, and resources on a country that has nothing to do with world terrorism?

 

[dreamcrusader]

And when did i say it didn't jump on others? We talked about this before, Russia same as US is an imerialistic country, but unlike you we do not hide our intentions behind lies of spreading freedom, like you do.





That link has the same chance of being a lie as Farenheit 9/11, unless you show me a neutral source speaking on the matter i will consider your link a lie.
Another thing, so you say that everyone who doesn't like america is a liberal? Alright then, i am a liberal and proud of it, atleast i am not an ignorant redneck who is ready to believe into the first piece of bullshit Fox news throws at him.





Then why aren't you doing that? Why are wasting men, money, and resources on a country that has nothing to do with world terrorism?

Lets look at an exact qoute made by you:

You said right there that you "didnt" jump on other contries.

And give me a ****ing break Kuzmich. That link isnt a lie. if you were to read it they analyze Michal Moores data in his films and find lies and whatnot in there. And what do you consider a nuetral source? Most of It is either Liberal or Conservative, it'll be VERY hard to find one in between.

And I intend to fight in my military in a few years. I want to go in as an officer so ill have to take some basic collage classes, but I do plan to fight.

 

[Kuzmich]

Lets look at an exact qoute made by you:

You said right there that you "didnt" jump on other contries.

And give me a ****ing break Kuzmich. That link isnt a lie. if you were to read it they analyze Michal Moores data in his films and find lies and whatnot in there. And what do you consider a nuetral source? Most of It is either Liberal or Conservative, it'll be VERY hard to find one in between.

And I intend to fight in my military in a few years. I want to go in as an officer so ill have to take some basic collage classes, but I do plan to fight.

Yeah you got me on that quote.

But about the link, if i find the link that says that Michael Moore was correct and analyzes his movie, would you believe that link?

Good for you then, go fight. Although i doubt there will be a war in few years, you will probably spend time sitting on your ass somewhere in Germany while i am gonna FIGHT in Chechnya, you people don't fight a war on terror, you fight a war on money.

 

[cxoli]

This entire thread makes me want to cry. I'm only going to quote one statement because everything else was just so repetative.

This amuses me:

That's an oxymoron. Islam does not condone terrorism. Therefore, one cannot be both a terrorist AND a muslim at the same time.

Christianity also does not condone terrorism. And I don't know about you, but I would call Hitler a "Christian terrorist."

Anyway, about the actual topic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dreamcrusader, your main argument seems to be that the war on Iraq is a good thing because we're fighting terrorism. This argument is flawed for a reason which someone (I forget who) pointed out early on. Unfortunately, no one seemed to take this into account. I'll restate it for you.

If the war in Iraq is simply to fight against terrorism, not for oil like "all the asshole liberals" claim, then why aren't we fighting terrorism in Saudi Arabia? I'm not trying to be anti-Bush (why I don't like him has very little to do with this war), but the only logical explanation is this: There is no profit in Saudi Arabia. If you can come up with another explanation, please share it with me.

Also, even if Iraq had had anything to do with 9/11, our attack on it isn't justified because 9/11 caused the deaths of about 2,000 people (not all of whom were even Americans) and so far, we have caused the deaths of at least 20,000 Iraqi people (though some estimates put the number at a figure as high as 100,000). Many of these people were civilians who were probably just fighting to protect themselves, their families, and their homeland. Who wouldn't fight for these things in the same situation? Are their deaths justified?

When it comes down to it, the United States is a hypocritical nation. We claim to be waging a war on terrorism when we ourselves have slaughtered tens of thousands of people. I'm sure as hell the Iraqi people think of us as terrorists. It's all about which point of view you're looking from.

 

[TrongaMonga]

Sorry, cxoli, but Saudi Arabia is the world's biggest producer of Oil. There is indeed profit in there. Why won't they attack Saudi Arabia? Because it's an ally, and breaking alliances would provoke a seriously bad diplomatic chaos. Which would lead to war, and, who knows, the entire Muslim Middle East would start supporting terrorism, and would destroy Israel.

--Edit--

Oh, yeah, and because most of the Oil Wells in that country are under control of American companies as it is.