Just to clear something out

[LawrenceOfArabia]

Was russia ever great? from what ive seen, large nations like that are very hard to mange are they not?

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by amrtin77
oto and the other dude, guru is right. the atom bomb may have been wrong, but given the situation i believe it was the best option.

and oto, how are his arguments false? hes completely right, except i do believe the a bomb was built, or helped by einstein (was he german?) either way i dont give a shit who invented it, we had it and we used it to end the war with japan.

oto dont just say "no your wrong" tell us WHY hes wrong. pick apart his argument dont just say your wrong.

Thank you amrtin. I would like to emphasize the last thing thing you said about him not giving us reason why I'm wrong. It is getting very annoying oto, just about every post we see from you isn't supported by anything.

And if talking or threatening a cause is making me a traitor first i must ask you says who?

The definition of traitor is "One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason." (according to dictionary.com)

You can betray something through way of words such as threats just as much as you can by actually going through with the threats.

there isn't much in your arguements to respond to oto. Most of it is just flaming.

We are great people, we have great culture and a 1000 years of history behind as

Yea, thats funny. You see the United States became a greater superpower in only 200 years.

we have succeded there others have failed, for example Napoleon, Hitler, Byzantium Empire, Mongols we have lived through all of them and at the end came out victorious you can't doubt those facts this is history it can not be changed.

Russia hasn't really suceeded too much, they just haven't failed. I mean, Napoleon and Hitler only lost due to weather, we went over that. You lived through the byzantines and mongols, but thats not really suceeding. I mean in the end, you were in the same place you were to start, so you didn't accomplish much.

And those are only miltary victorys, there is a lot more to a country. Russia has been one of the worse places to live in those 1000 years. I expect you have read about how hard times where under the rule of the Czars. Communism didn't get many props either.

My arguements are all valid, I'm putting legit facts and reason behind what I say. You constantly fail to do that.


As for the atom bomb, Albert Einstein didn't come anywhere close to inventing it. All he did was write a letter to Rosevelt urging the government to help university scientists with their research into chain reactions, but that is only because he was persauded by some Hungarians.

The "Manhattan Project," the $2 billion wartime effort by U.S. and British scientists and the U.S. Army to build a weapon that would "end the war." At its peak, about 160,000 people worked on the project in more than 25 sites across the United States. No one person can be completely credited with the invention of nuclear weapons.

 

[LawrenceOfArabia]

Originally posted by Guru

Russia hasn't really suceeded too much, they just haven't failed. I mean, Napoleon and Hitler only lost due to weather, we went over that. You lived through the byzantines and mongols, but thats not really suceeding. I mean in the end, you were in the same place you were to start, so you didn't accomplish much.

[/B]

Hmm, if my history is correct, napoleon did conquer the russian capital, hitler is the biggest moron(im making a thread about it) so there isnt much about that, and how long has russia truely been a country? not long, for the mongols have previously controlled russsia as did the huns and other barbarian races.

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by LawrenceOfArabia
Hmm, if my history is correct, napoleon did conquer the russian capital, hitler is the biggest moron(im making a thread about it) so there isnt much about that, and how long has russia truely been a country? not long, for the mongols have previously controlled russsia as did the huns and other barbarian races.

hitler might have been a little on the insane side, but I'm quite sure he conquered Russias capital too

 

[LawrenceOfArabia]

yeah...what was it, did hittler go in septemberish when he should have gone in june?

 

[Kuzmich]

Originally posted by Guru
hitler might have been a little on the insane side, but I'm quite sure he conquered Russias capital too

No he haven't he actually didn't conquer any major city, he blockaded St. Petersburg but its citizens refused to surrender. Now Napoleon has conquered our capitol but he has been defeated misarebly out of his 120000 men army only 10000 came out of Russia alive. Now we are the great nation and you can't doubt that fact, atleast we are greater then most of the natons. Now you don't know anything about life during Tzars. First it wasn't all that bad people lived the way they always had they didn't care who was in power as long as they lived like they have for hundreds of years. As i said before your arguments are not supported, try and proove me wrong, and you dodged answering my questions so i am still waiting for reply. Weather had nothing to do with anything and you haven't prooven anything by just saying that it did. Only reason US is what it is today is because of its location and because of the imigrants, besides it hasn't been much of a nation until the first world war. I said how your freinds are traitors so i don't want to come back to it. Barbarian races never controled as for a simple reason that we were those barbarian races, mongols never really controled as all they did was tak money from as. Our king has once conquered Constantinople and he has put his shield on the gates of that city.
Oh and for the rest i need some back up here, i will bring my freinds cause i see that i am outnumbered. Oh and about USSR, how was it bad for as then we industrialized, then we were the first once to lunch men in space, first once to build a satelite, we considered equal in strength not only to the US but to all nations of NATO for a couple of decades, now how many countries can say they done this? That got to count for something, and bring some of your Russian freinds here, i want to listen to what they have to say. Now we are the great nation, our people are united together so there we can withstand allmost anytrial. And i see you still talking about my grammar skills as it was already said try speaking Russian i would like to see you doing that.
Oh and i would be prefed to be called otmo.
Besides what do you want from me anyway? To agree with you means betray my country and i kill myself before i even start thinking about that.
Actually i wont be able to spend that much time in BF anymore i will show up casually but in greater periods of time. I have to go back to life, i haven't had a fight in 3 weeks, my girlfreind has forgoten my face, and i can understand it cause i haven't shaved in days. Oh, hope atleast my freinds still remember me, but i feel like i must proove something to you. I know this is insignificant because i can just go to any Russian forum and everyone will agree with me. Oh yeah don't forget that i have nulified most of your arguments so you have nothing against me, exept you are right Germans had nothing to do with nukes, i checked, there was just a rumor flying around. And Russia was and is a great nation of the world, we were considered a military power before US has even existed, maybe our economy needs some help but we can live through it, its not like that can be harder then dealing with Hitler or Napoleon. Oh and we did beat the Mongols, we have libereted from them, and now they are just a part of us. And you repeat yourself too, and by answering on my comment about you not supporting your arguments by saying that you do support your arguments prooves nothing. Again i ask you what do you want from me?

Oh and read this about the WW2 you might find it interesting
http://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/11/WWIIWhat-ifs.shtml

It basically says that USSR won the war but because 25% of German forces were directed against US and UK, and US provided us with supplies we needed. I thank your nation for that, but it also says that you would not have won the war without us for a simple reason that we destroyed 75% of German forces, now how can you say that a nation that did something like this is not at least military powerful? Those men you disrespectfully called stupid died not only for well being of their motherland but also for well being of the earth, so have some respect they died and maybe not even knowing it but their deaths have saved the world, so did the deaths of people in US and UK army but to the smaller degree. Oh and we did hold for 2 years without anyones help at all, we had to fight Germans almost at their fullest, and they were better equiped then we. Something to think about then you call those people who died in WW2 stupid.

 

[LawrenceOfArabia]

okay, i dont know where u get ur sources get theirs, but from what i know, they are wrong. A. France entered russia with 200k troops and left with 20k. B. Russia did not kill 75% of germanies troops, the weather was doing that, because that was the year that apparently russia had their worst winter ever. so the russians with their 1 gun to 3 ratio didnt do it. the americans had a very very very powerful navy after attacking japan. by the end of the war with japan these vessels sat and waited. on the east coast, the us was practically the superpower in the ocean.

 

[amrtin77]

the russian winter destroyed napoleon and the germans.

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by Otmorosok
No he haven't he actually didn't conquer any major city, he blockaded St. Petersburg but its citizens refused to surrender. Now Napoleon has conquered our capitol but he has been defeated misarebly out of his 120000 men army only 10000 came out of Russia alive. Now we are the great nation and you can't doubt that fact, atleast we are greater then most of the natons. Now you don't know anything about life during Tzars. First it wasn't all that bad people lived the way they always had they didn't care who was in power as long as they lived like they have for hundreds of years. As i said before your arguments are not supported, try and proove me wrong, and you dodged answering my questions so i am still waiting for reply. Weather had nothing to do with anything and you haven't prooven anything by just saying that it did. Only reason US is what it is today is because of its location and because of the imigrants, besides it hasn't been much of a nation until the first world war. I said how your freinds are traitors so i don't want to come back to it.

Compared to Ethiopia, you are great. Compared to the United States, you are Ethiopia.

If you think people enjoyed living during the time of the Czars, I know more about life during the Czars that you do. In a nutshell, if they enjoyed it, they would have never overthrown it. Use some common sense.

How many times do I have to say my arguements ARE BASED ON FACTS! Constitution, reliable websites containing history, definitions of words! Its yours that are based on nothing! How many people and how many times is it going to take to tell you that? My God you're stupid.

Only reason US is what it is today is because we are more intellegent than the rest of the world. Location wise, hey, Russia was more than welcome to claim the land first.

We hadn't been much of a nation until the first World War...Maybe that is because we were only 100 years old? Use some common sense.

The saddest part is, it was a nation formed by farmers and religious men who wore belts on their heads, and yet it still managed to come out on top of Russian in the end.

As for the weather...what are you blind? Waaaaaaayyyyyy back in the thread I posted a link to historychannel.com about how the weather haulted the invasion.

You might have said my friends are traitors, you never backed it up with anything. I backed up the reason you were a traitor with the constitution and the definition of the word. That and a little common sense.

Any other questions I missed are becuase I simply can't read what you are saying. It is very poor english.

Barbarian races never controled as for a simple reason that we were those barbarian races, mongols never really controled as all they did was tak money from as. Our king has once conquered Constantinople and he has put his shield on the gates of that city.
Oh and for the rest i need some back up here,. Oh and about USSR, how was it bad for as then we industrialized, then we were the first once to lunch men in space, first once to build a satelite, we considered equal in strength not only to the US but to all nations of NATO for a couple of decades, now how many countries can say they done this? That got to count for something, and bring some of your Russian freinds here, i want to listen to what they have to say. Now we are the great nation, our people are united together so there we can withstand allmost anytrial. And i see you still talking about my grammar skills as it was already said try speaking Russian i would like to see you doing that.
Oh and i would be prefed to be called otmo.
Besides what do you want from me anyway? To agree with you means betray my country and i kill myself before i even start thinking about that.
Actually i wont be able to spend that much time in BF anymore i will show up casually but in greater periods of time. I have to go back to life, i haven't had a fight in 3 weeks, my girlfreind has forgoten my face, and i can understand it cause i haven't shaved in days. Oh, hope atleast my freinds still remember me, but i feel like i must proove something to you. I know this is insignificant because i can just go to any Russian forum and everyone will agree with me. Oh yeah don't forget that i have nulified most of your arguments so you have nothing against me, exept you are right Germans had nothing to do with nukes, i checked, there was just a rumor flying around. And Russia was and is a great nation of the world, we were considered a military power before US has even existed, maybe our economy needs some help but we can live through it, its not like that can be harder then dealing with Hitler or Napoleon. Oh and we did beat the Mongols, we have libereted from them, and now they are just a part of us. And you repeat yourself too, and by answering on my comment about you not supporting your arguments by saying that you do support your arguments prooves nothing. Again i ask you what do you want from me?

"i will bring my freinds cause i see that i am outnumbered"

The reason for that is because I'm right, and am putting up a legit arguement.

You didn't nulifie hardly any of my arguements. You said they were wrong and not true (after I had backed tem up by fact), but you couldnt support what you said. You said said it and flamed me.

And yes, you are considered a milatary power, so what? However, America is stronger and does more for the world today. Thats what counts.

"and by answering on my comment about you not supporting your arguments by saying that you do support your arguments prooves nothing"

Actually, it was my comment to you, but you thought I was really great and so thought it would be cool to say it back.

And, once more, I do support my arguements. And I have people who agree with me. But you on the other, have been told numerous times that you don;t, and you need to except that as the truth.

And what do I want from you? Not much. Just to face the facts for what they are - facts.

Oh and read this about the WW2 you might find it interesting
http://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/11/WWIIWhat-ifs.shtml

It basically says that USSR won the war but because 25% of German forces were directed against US and UK, and US provided us with supplies we needed. I thank your nation for that, but it also says that you would not have won the war without us for a simple reason that we destroyed 75% of German forces, now how can you say that a nation that did something like this is not at least military powerful? Those men you disrespectfully called stupid died not only for well being of their motherland but also for well being of the earth, so have some respect they died and maybe not even knowing it but their deaths have saved the world, so did the deaths of people in US and UK army but to the smaller degree. Oh and we did hold for 2 years without anyones help at all, we had to fight Germans almost at their fullest, and they were better equiped then we. Something to think about then you call those people who died in WW2 stupid. [/B]

Look at the historychannel.com, a much more reliable source. It will tell you that the weather haulted the german invasion.

As for supplies, no sweat, we save your ass just like do almost every nations.

And I never said you weren't a milatary power. Your country just has hordes of people with rifles. Also, Russia has never been much for General ship.

And, if war between the US and Russia came, the US would win due to more money, more launching platforms, better strategy, and more technology.

As for calling them stupid, you mis-understood me. I never meant the Russians soldiers as stupid, they didn't have much of a choice. It was the Generals and field comanders that were stupid.

 

[amrtin77]

yes, the russians ran and they were shot, they fought and they were shot. lose/lose situation there. i do have great respect for the average russian soldier fighting (forced or not) to stop the german invasion as i respect the american/brittish/canadian/ whatever, but it IS true that we all were saved by that russian winter. the germans came in with tech, with better trained soldiers, and with better leadership. the war with russia was expected to last a few months tops, and would have if the germans didnt get screwed by the winter. i dont mean to disrespect the soldiers who died at all, but it i HIGHLY doubt russias ability to have fought the germans without that winter.

 

[LawrenceOfArabia]

in ww2, russia believe they could win by running at the enemy and overwhelming them. this worked in the very early part of ww1. untill the russians noticed the germans had a little gun that went, rat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat....reload....rat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat tat...reload....and so on with the reload as the only pause. and then they began trench warfare and still got crushed and backed out because of political reasons.


okay, guru, you said that america is what it is today because of technology right? well, without this rather nice technology called COMMUNICATION, america would suck. thats why they are one of the fastest countries to mobilize their forces. so if someone hit america, the whole nation would know within seconds. remember 9/11? within minutes, nearly all tv stassions(sp?) had news about it and almost all of america new within the first 10 minutes. how about that? Okay, let me say this, the battle of new orleans in the revolutionary war took place about a month after the revolution supposedly ended...people died for no reason...if we had this communcation at 9/11, almost no one would have escaped because the police/firemen would have taken much longer to reach the towers.

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by LawrenceOfArabia
okay, guru, you said that america is what it is today because of technology right? well, without this rather nice technology called COMMUNICATION, america would suck. thats why they are one of the fastest countries to mobilize their forces. so if someone hit america, the whole nation would know within seconds. remember 9/11? within minutes, nearly all tv stassions(sp?) had news about it and almost all of america new within the first 10 minutes. how about that? Okay, let me say this, the battle of new orleans in the revolutionary war took place about a month after the revolution supposedly ended...people died for no reason...if we had this communcation at 9/11, almost no one would have escaped because the police/firemen would have taken much longer to reach the towers.

Actually, American intellegence would let them know of an attack before it even happened

 

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

You have no idea how many lives were saved.

u have no idea if any lifes were saved thats just a assumption it is completly un-moral to nuke innocent civilians that were used as a TEST to see how much damage there stupid toys can do

No one person can be completely credited with the invention of nuclear weapons

urm you say this because you cant face the fact a german saved you years of trouble.
As for supplies,

we save your ass just like do almost every nations.

well u didnt atualy save our ''ass'' we were on the offensive when u came to claim a bit of glory u wait years, you gather enough forces so there could be no chance of losing.... it took about 2 years for you to come to our help.. it took the british
"When Hitler invaded Poland on the 1st September 1939 it was swiftly followed by the British and French governments declaring war on Germany, this occurred on Sunday the 3rd September 1939." thats 2 days btw if u helped us earlier maybe so many people's lives could be saved or not we all know how much the yanks love friendly fire

And, if war between the US and Russia came, the US would win due to more money, more launching platforms, better strategy, and more technology.

well this would never happen..... but if it did the majourity of europe would support russia.... maybe more because america = bad rep not many fools would support them

was the Generals and field comanders that were stupid.

they wernt stupid they "ran" in with rifles because they had no choice how is that stupid? tbh america wouldnt be nearly as powerfull as it is now if they didnt step in last moment to claim superior german technology. hey face it if russia/france/britian didnt step in europe would've of got conquered then hitler will set its greedy eyes on america AN america would be ruled be hitler or his decendents maybe even the whole world you know this but cant admit it

it will tell you that the weather haulted the german invasion.

well this is true but germany was gathering forces probaly quicker than russia so it helped them

Yea, thats funny. You see the United States became a greater superpower in only 200 years.

urm compared to russia america has had a breeze 800 years more of trouble. you keep saying the russian only won because of the winter so what? russians had to deal with the cold aswell just they were better prepared than them

 

[Kuzmich]

Originally posted by amrtin77
yes, the russians ran and they were shot, they fought and they were shot. lose/lose situation there. i do have great respect for the average russian soldier fighting (forced or not) to stop the german invasion as i respect the american/brittish/canadian/ whatever, but it IS true that we all were saved by that russian winter. the germans came in with tech, with better trained soldiers, and with better leadership. the war with russia was expected to last a few months tops, and would have if the germans didnt get screwed by the winter. i dont mean to disrespect the soldiers who died at all, but it i HIGHLY doubt russias ability to have fought the germans without that winter.

But we had worse equipment, exept for our tanks and our equipment was as vurnerable to our winter as was German, winter did help us, but our soldiers were more likely to freeze because of it, we weren't provided with blankets and stuff in many cases. Yet we with the help of US and other allies won the war, we are just as vurnurable to cold as everyone else so i don't see how winter was a major factor that helped our victory.

And about me being a traitor, doesn't my constitution aply to me? Because if it does it gives me a freedom of speech so i can say what i want. Now America didn't come out on top of the world cause its people were smarter then in other places, use some common sense. It was all because the smart immigrants from all over the world have come here because you accepted and funded them.

 

[amrtin77]

the reason the winter helped you is because you had MILLIONS of people to send and die. the germans were GREATLY outnumbered, if they died from the cold they could not replace their soldiers.

i do admit the russians at stalingrad fought like hell. they had almost completely lost the city and regained it, but that again was by sheer numbers and later the winter. after stalingrad the russians counterattacked into germany and helped win the war.

 

[Tempest Storm]

Otto, first, I just want to commend you on your Patriotism. It's ppl like you, my frined, that made Hitler's job so damn easy. Keep up the good work!

 

[Kuzmich]

Originally posted by amrtin77
the reason the winter helped you is because you had MILLIONS of people to send and die. the germans were GREATLY outnumbered, if they died from the cold they could not replace their soldiers.

Can you please provide a link with the info on the size of German and Red armies, that would help me to agree with you, if ofcourse you are right. And Spike how exactly did people like me make Hitler's job easy, Hitler lost in the end so i don't really see what you talking about.

 

[Guru]

Originally posted by Otmorosok
Now America didn't come out on top of the world cause its people were smarter then in other places, use some common sense. It was all because the smart immigrants from all over the world have come here because you accepted and funded them.

No? Most immagrants we recieve are not very smart. The reason we turned out so well is because our founding fathers put together a better form of government than everyone else. And, one good decision lead to another, and before you know it the United States was the richest and most educated country's in the world.

Originally posted by Otmorosok
Hitler lost in the end so i don't really see what you talking about.

He took 6 million jews with him...

 

[amrtin77]

http://militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/stalingrad/barbarossa.aspx

^ that is about barbarossa then stalingrad



http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/BARBAROS.HTML




and here is a site dedicated to stalingrad i used for a report once
http://www.stalingrad.net/


a report starts off with the russian winter kicking germany's ass on the way to moscow
http://www.campusrat.com/basementpapers/repce/History/68.htm

it pretty much says that the germans were stupid and they were underequipped for the winter.

 

[Kuzmich]

I agree that it is the reachest but it is far from being most educated, the most educated country in the world is probably Japan or China. And immigrants did have a lot to do with your nation i mean the founders of your nation were immigrants, you are a nation of immigrants. We already discussed that your public school system needs help, and although your colleges are generally good not everyone is going to get into college, besides there are english colleges that are just as good.