Just to clear something out

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Guru

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If we keep it in the Reasearch stage, we will be just as good as everyone else fighter wise. I guess America just likes a sense of security.

We already have competitors, its just they don;t have nearly as much money as the US does to fund these things.

As for WW2, our military wasn't doing much reasearch tech wise before then. It didnt really start toward after. However, tank wise, shortly after the war, US and German scientists worked together to build a better tank than Russia (they thought Russia might invade, and our tanks were no match). The tank they came up with was amazing, it was the best in the world, however the government thought it was too expensive to put into mass production. But still invented it.

But yes, Russia does invent some new things, no one can or is trying to deny that. However, shortly after Russia comes out with them, the US has just as good.
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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did u say will? does that mean you have fianallt admitted that america isnt omipotent!!!?? thank you for admiting this as many wouldnt.. you may have 60% now.. but itll change if your goverment doesnt stop spending so lavishly when they could do things more cheaper. look you wont compete with any fighter if you dont stop compromising for multi-role planes.A lot of countrys are just simply better... no matter how much money dumnasses have behind them.. doesnt mean they can come up with stuff.. look i have respect for your scientists when i said that thing about dumnasses i didnt direct it @ america im just saying its true
 

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No one ever said America was *omnipotent, its common sense that if the world teamed up against America we would lose. However, as far as individual countrys are concerned, America is the most powerful.

We as a country have 60% of the worlds wealth. Our government is going to be wealthy relative to everyone else no matter what they spend it on. Remember, they get their money from taxes, and if we have rich people to pay taxes, we are going to be rich.

Were always going to be the richest nation, that is common knowledge.

And what do you mean we wont compete with any fighter? We already have the best fighter. It's the rest of the world that has to keep up with us.

And, lets not forget America has the best scientist in the world, and the most money to fund them. Why you called them dumbasses is a mystery, considering you can't even spell the word.

No country is better than the US. Stop trying to argue with that, becuase you put up the shittiest arguements.
 

Kuzmich

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Originally posted by Guru
If we keep it in the Reasearch stage, we will be just as good as everyone else fighter wise. I guess America just likes a sense of security.

We already have competitors, its just they don;t have nearly as much money as the US does to fund these things.

As for WW2, our military wasn't doing much reasearch tech wise before then. It didnt really start toward after. However, tank wise, shortly after the war, US and German scientists worked together to build a better tank than Russia (they thought Russia might invade, and our tanks were no match). The tank they came up with was amazing, it was the best in the world, however the government thought it was too expensive to put into mass production. But still invented it.

But yes, Russia does invent some new things, no one can or is trying to deny that. However, shortly after Russia comes out with them, the US has just as good.
First time i dont want to opose you, ofcourse i do disagree with some stuff here but not enough to make up a counter argument. Exept that your fighter is not that much better then Russian or European under some conditions it will be even worse. I would like to see a link about that tank and about the SU-37 heat generation. According to what ORC said you cant turn on your stealth if you want to use your radar. That goes perfectly under characteristic first hit first kill, but after you make that first hit and before you go back to stealth the remaining plains will already get a lock on you. Rockets are detectible and su-37 might just go into free fall after it detects them, at the same time radar will automatically be getting a lock on F-22. Hope it proved something to you. And once again dont forget about a little thing that is called Raptor killer, MIG-35 it is designed to work agaisnt any flaw F-22 has, ofcourse it will probably not get the funding, but once we get more money that plain might come true.
 

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The key in what you said: According to what ORC said.

There is the flaw right there...

Firstly, you don't "turn on" stealth. Its the way the plane is built. It is always going to be stealthed, no matter what the conditions.

Nextly, you can use radar and remain stealth at the same time. Using radar will not get you detected by the enemy, its common sense.

As for the SU-37 and the heat energy. The link you gave stated it. ALso, I don't see where it say it gives off minimal heat energy, like the raptor. Obviously, if you are flying at mach whatever with after burners, you SU-37 is going to give off significant heat.

Also, if your missles use a radar guidance system, you cant lock on to the Raptor. Even if the f-22 is right in front of you, your radar can't see it. Get that through your head.

As for your freefalling idea, keep in mind the US missles can determine where the plane is going, and can beat it there. Plus, while your freefalling it would take a miracle to dodge that sexy cannon on the raptor.

You want links to the early cold war tank, take your pick:

http://www.4reference.net/encyclopedias/wikipedia/MBT_70.html
http://www.clubi.ie/exalted/mbt70.htm
http://members.aol.com/panzersgt/armor/mbt70.html
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/8757/mbt70page.html
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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Nextly, you can use radar and remain stealth at the same time. Using radar will not get you detected by the enemy, its common sense.
well this means a lot of american "comon" people are thick. let me ask you this how do you know when someone has a lock on you?, yes because there radar system sends a pulse and is detected by yours.. The whole idea of stealth is not to be detected by radar

you are always assuming that the raptor will see the SU first but stealth doest take away something called "sight". and that missle thing, bullshit a missle couldnt possible know what the pilots next move is and the pilot would always be at advantage by seconds even if the missile see's what angle its moving and head for its "approximate" destination all the pilot has to do is too steer off.

you're a american im not a american hes russian im not russian so i should be pretty impartial. and you see the raptor isnt a fighter its a fighter/bomber which means THEY HAVE COMPRIMISED IT so its not a good of a fighter so it can, basically bomb.

let me get this through your head americans have about 12 raptor prototypes and guess how many sukhoi's the russian have..... yes a ****ing lot more than you
 

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Nicely put orc, i thought that i was about to loose. What nation are you from anyways? China?
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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nope im not from china why would you think that? im in a country that is reasonaly small, rich, (for its size) cutting-edge tech,better health system than america, near to europe (mainland) a place where yanks pinch our ideas, a country that was involved in the iraqi war. a country involved with the making of the "euro fighter" its pretty easy to guess.... and btw the euro fighter is on par if not better than the f22. guru you still havent told me who is the best scientist.... tbh it realy depends on the pilot (refrerring to raptor argument)
 

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Still dont get what country are you from and provide a couple of links on Typhoon, we might open discussion on which one is better, Typhoon or SU-37. Oh and i am from a country from which yanks steal oil, which lights up about 1/3 of their nation.
 

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hes from the UK.
 

Kuzmich

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United Kingdom, good country, saw the queen once, was switching plains in UK and had 6 hours till my next flight, it was one day then she came out to her people. You know that your queen is a cousin of last king of Russian Empire? Now back to the plains.
 

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Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
well this means a lot of american "comon" people are thick. let me ask you this how do you know when someone has a lock on you?, yes because there radar system sends a pulse and is detected by yours.. The whole idea of stealth is not to be detected by radar


This is how the F-22's radar (APG-77) works:

"When operating as a radar, the APG-77 transmits waveforms that change from burst to burst, and are sent at random frequencies. Such a changing signal is very difficult for an enemy to detect and analyze. If the enemy does manage to detect the signal, he or she must then try to get a radar lock on the F-22 so it can be attacked. The F-22's stealthiness makes this tricky in the first place, but to make matters more troublesome, the AESA also analyses the enemy's radar and sends out a jamming burst to disrupt the lock. The AESA then goes on to other tasks until the enemy radar begins its lock cycle again."

The SU-37 would need a hell of a lot of luck to even get a lock on the Raptor, while doging the missiles.

you are always assuming that the raptor will see the SU first but stealth doest take away something called "sight".
With radar and infared satelites, raptors know where MiGs are and the direction they are headed long before they have a visual. Not to mention the raptor, unlike the SU, actually has a camoflauge scheme.

Plus, the Raptor can hit a target from 185 KM away. It can be quite a challenge to see something that far away.

Also, Otmo, about the things to block our satelites blah blah blah. You bring up a good point. Those could only be used assuming we are flying over Russian airspace. This would me we are the attacker. You see, both the attacker and the defender have certain advantages in a battle. One of the attackers advantages is being able to choose when and where to strike.

Assuming the US is attacking Russia, we get to fly at night. This means you have pretty much no way of detecting the raptor, becuase you loose your best method of detection - the human eye. In other words, there's no sense in even putting your MiGs airborne.


and that missle thing, bullshit a missle couldnt possible know what the pilots next move is and the pilot would always be at advantage by seconds even if the missile see's what angle its moving and head for its "approximate" destination all the pilot has to do is too steer off.
Certain missles used by the navy can and do do that and are being developed to fit aircraft.


you're a american im not a american hes russian im not russian so i should be pretty impartial. and you see the raptor isnt a fighter its a fighter/bomber which means THEY HAVE COMPRIMISED IT so its not a good of a fighter so it can, basically bomb.
That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard you say. Another reason why it is very hard to take what you say seriously.

The Raptor was designed for air to air combat, however, just like pretty much every other fighter (including MiGs), it has air to ground capabilities. This means, if they need to take out a quick target, the Raptor can be armed on special conditions to attack a ground target, with missles loading only for that mission. Let me repeat this one more time: just about every fighter in modern warfare (INCLUDING MiGs) has A2G capabilities. It in no way make it any less a fighter, but a more useful combat machine.


let me get this through your head americans have about 12 raptor prototypes and guess how many sukhoi's the russian have..... yes a ****ing lot more than you
Numbers aren't one of the concerns. Raptors come into production in 2005, and the US and Russia are not going to be combating before than. We're talking about which is better, not who has more.
 

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Su-37 is a multi weather fighter, night is not a problem. And even if F-22 is better then Su-37 then we still got another plain, MIG-35 Raptor killer, now that plain is specifically designed to kill stealth plains.
 

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Originally posted by Otmorosok
Su-37 is a multi weather fighter, night is not a problem. And even if F-22 is better then Su-37 then we still got another plain, MIG-35 Raptor killer, now that plain is specifically designed to kill stealth plains.
I'm not sure if you have ever looked through night vision, but its not a very "clear" view.

Lots of supporting arguements behind the MiG-35, good job!

But for starters, tell us how it even detects them.
 

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According to that link, the your MIG-35 "claims" to be better than the F-22, but it doesnt back it up. All it says is that it has similar features. It has stealth capabilities, but it isn't completely stealth. Meaning it isn't quite as good as the F-22 stealth wise. It said it had other similarities, and the only thing it has the F-22 didn't was a faster top speed. However, the F-22 has more advanded avionics, radar, and stealth techonology on it. Plus, the Raptor program has funding, your's doesn't.

Thats not what I would call even close to amazing, considering the fact the F-22 official site says it guarantees air dominance and says why.
 

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F-22 is also not completely stealth, there is the proof that F-22 has better radar or avionics? And your site can say what it wants to, until it is prooven by actual air fight it is only a theory. Besides SU-37 still is the best plain on this earth, and once it goes stealth (Bertuk) F-22 can rest in peace.
 

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Originally posted by Otmorosok
F-22 is also not completely stealth, there is the proof that F-22 has better radar or avionics? And your site can say what it wants to, until it is prooven by actual air fight it is only a theory. Besides SU-37 still is the best plain on this earth, and once it goes stealth (Bertuk) F-22 can rest in peace.
The F-22 is completely stealth. It can only be seen on radar when it banks.

As for the radar, read that quote.

As for the avionics, look a few post back, I posted the link to the official site.

As for the theory vs praticallity, if you compare information about two things, and one comes out on top, you can conclude that that is the better plane.

And, I gave you fact upon fact about why the F-22 is better than the SU-37, you gave me one or two, but just about all of those could be contradicted.

As for the Bertuk, that "plasma sheild" is rumor. Don't count on it. However, supposing it does get created, by the time it does those LCD projection camoflauge screens will make the F-22 invisible to the human eye, as well as radar, as well as heat, and every other method of detection for that matter.
 

ORC-r0x0r-ROC

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Ok the f-22 is not a STEALTH PLANE it only has stealth capabilitys...... and the sukhoi is 8 years old ffs and you havent even started making the raptor...dont you think the russians would come up with something else in 8 years also when the JSF comes out the raptor will become obselete. when the raptor opens its weapon bays (there not on the outside) itll lose most of its stealth capabilities. they probaly wont even make them LCD screen anytime soon.. and by LCD u mean "liquid crystal display" you realy dont know wtf you are talking about
 

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I posted the link on Plasma shield somethere already, it said that plasma shield was already developed in like 60s by USSR, all Russian scientists are trying to do is to upgrade it. Now you say you give me fact after fact, well only fact you gave me that can't be argued against is that F-22 has stealth, however you say that it is completely stealth, then it really is not. As it said in MiG-35 link, mig is gonna have the same stealth capabilities as F-22 it also says that its gonna have that thing thats gonna make it invisible to human eye. If the funding fails then all that research will not be thrown away it will be picked up by Sukhoi who will get funding, that means that bertuk will have all the capabilities of F-22 but it will be far better the F-22 because of its maneurablity and engines.
 
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