I need a good strategy
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Since you are new I'll give you run down of UD basics (since I'm rediculusly gosu with UD)...
THE HEROS
Death Knight: Usually the best choice when facing Night Elf and Human. A good all around hero for harassing as well as creeping. Death Coil is his bread and butter ability, acting as a healing spell, hero nuke and his best way to harass. Unholy Aura boosts your entire army with increased healing and speed to get around, which is always useful. Death Pact is probably the most underused skill, mainly for the fact that the DK needs his other abilities a bit more rather than sacrificing a unit for health. Finally, Animate Dead which is a interesting ultimate that is underused. Basically, you want to go Coil/Aura/Coil/Aura/Coil/Animate Dead or Aura/Animate Dead or Aura/Pact/Pact/Pact.
Lich: This is a hero you'll see very often used first in Undead mirror, and used second in almost all other matchups. Frost Nova is a great AoE spell and Hero nuke that does great damage and slows the targets affected. Dark Ritual is best used with a Rod of Necromancy to provide the Lich with more Novas. Frost Armor is a very situational spell that causes distractions from the Lich's main goal: Frost Nova. Death and Decay is also an interesting spell, that destroys trees and does percentage damage over time, a more situational ultimate. Find yourself picking Nova/Ritual most of the time, though some swear by a level of Frost Armor in between Novas sometimes.
Crypt Lord: The new hero to TFT, used mainly as a 3rd hero, but a good starter when matched against Orc. Carrion Beetles is the spell you want if you go Crypt Lord first. Pop those beetles out straight from corpses, cause they have no timer on them and work great when massed. Impale is an AoE stun with a bit of damage that goes in a line shape, the spell to pick when using the CL as a 3rd hero. Spiked Carapace is a defensive mechanism for the CL that reflects damage and adds armor. His ultimate, Locust Swarm is one you probably won't find yourself using very often. Good spell when your DK has no mana or you need to do damage fast. The CL is usually seen picking Beetle/Carapace or Impale/Carapace, but Beetle/Impale is seeing a bit more light as well.
THE UNITS
Ghoul: This little guy is quite fragile but does good damage, is cheap and great for surrounds. He harvests wood and recieves a huge boost at Tier 3 with Ghoul Frenzy that allows him to move and attack faster. You'll find yourself using this unit against Medium Armor units (Archers, Riflemen) as well as for hit and runs on Peasant lines.
Crypt Fiend: Your basic anti-air unit that is acts as a Piercing damage ranged attacker. He receives Burrow and Web at Tier 2, both are great skills to have. Burrow makes the Crypt Fiend dig underground where he has the "invisible" state and heals health rapidly. Find yourself smacking the Burrow key when you have a Crypt Fiend on low HP. Web is a disabler that brings air units to the ground so your Ghouls can hit them. The air can still attack but it can't move.
Obsidian Statue: Heals health and mana over time using a castable aura that drains a bit of mana every time. Basically works as a toned down fountain that has a little surprise at Tier 3.
Destroyer: If you get the Destroyer upgrade at Tier 3, you can use the Obsidian Statues to morph into Destroyers. This Tier 3 unit is a great anti-caster that does magic damage and has spell-immunity. It also has Devour Magic, which eats up any positive and negative buffs in an area, giving the Destroyer mana. This mana is used for Orb of Annihilation which adds 20- damage to the Destroyer and allows him to do splash damage. His last skill is Absorb Mana which takes the mana from a friendly unit and gives it to the Destroyer.
Abomination: Your Tier 3 melee unit does great damage and has high health. Pretty basic really, receives a "Disease Cloud" when researched that acts as a typical poison. Does damage over time but costs quite a bit.
THE ITEMS
Rod of Necromancy: This thing creates 2 Skeletal Warriors that are on a timer from any corpse. This means the corpses generated from your Graveyard, creep corpses, or even those Sheeps that you find walking around. You'll find yourself buying this item almost all the time since it works as a Mana Potion for the Lich, as well as a valuable creeping/harassing tool.
Dust of Appearance: Threw this in here cause it's often used vs NE. And if you're smart it's used in mirror vs. fiends or crypt lord. Click it and it coats units around your hero with Appearance Dust, rendering them visible when invisible for a certain amount of time. Great against that pesky Blademaster as well as hiding Archers.
THE STRATEGIES!! - Sorry it took so long...
Mass Ghouls Tier 1 Push: Commonly used against NE where you skip your early tech and set up another Crypt pumping Ghouls. Can also be used against Human if you grab a Lich (hurts a crapload if he's fast expanding). CL works with Beetles vs. Human and maybe Orc.
Quick Tech Tier 3 with Ghouls: One of the most popular strats, this involves you going DK/Lich/Crypt Lord (pull out Lich/CL vs. NE if you need a stronger Coil, or CL if you're low on hero levels) and harassing as much as possible with DK while creeping with Ghouls. On Tier 2 all you need is a Slaughterhouse, a Lich and your Tier 3 tech. Frenzy Ghouls/Statues work well when jacking Night Elf Tree of Life or when attacking Peasants. Be prepared to defend your Tier 3 tech to the death.
Fiends: Commonly used vs. Orc, this can be CL/DK/Lich or DK/CL/Lich. Creep creep creep, defend until you have Tier 3. Heroes play a huge role in this as well as your burrow micro, make sure you have good positioning also.
Necrowagon: Probably only used vs. Orc simply because Elf has Wisps and Human has Dispel. Spirit Walkers aren't very common meaning you can just overwhelm them with Skeletons if you play your cards right. DK/Dreadlord or DK/Lich, don't tech to Tier 3 too early.
Mass Gargs: Used commonly vs. Nightelf and UD. Gargs are great for harassing workers as well as being good scouts for expos (and potentially destroying them). This can make your opponent go nuts, just make sure you can defend yourself at home.
Fast Expansion: Don't see this much but it can lead to a Tri-Crypt attack. Fast expansions work best with a Dreadlord using sleep or a DK coiling to minimize damage to your Ghouls. Sleep surrounds are cake thanks to your assload of Ghouls.
Frost Wyrm tech: Don't see this much.. I'd say Frosties are best in FFA or accompanied by Fiends if you have an expo. They cost a LOT to make and if you're opponent scouts it you're pretty much screwed.
Mass Banshees: Well.. it's incredibly hard to pull off but if you can do it then you've pretty much secured the game for yourself depending on what you're Possessing. Otherwise I highly advise against this.
Abomination with Necros: A bit strange but Unholy Frenzied Aboms are really strong, try to avoid Dispel as much as possible because Necros blow vs. Dispel/Wisps.
THE HEROS
Death Knight: Usually the best choice when facing Night Elf and Human. A good all around hero for harassing as well as creeping. Death Coil is his bread and butter ability, acting as a healing spell, hero nuke and his best way to harass. Unholy Aura boosts your entire army with increased healing and speed to get around, which is always useful. Death Pact is probably the most underused skill, mainly for the fact that the DK needs his other abilities a bit more rather than sacrificing a unit for health. Finally, Animate Dead which is a interesting ultimate that is underused. Basically, you want to go Coil/Aura/Coil/Aura/Coil/Animate Dead or Aura/Animate Dead or Aura/Pact/Pact/Pact.
Lich: This is a hero you'll see very often used first in Undead mirror, and used second in almost all other matchups. Frost Nova is a great AoE spell and Hero nuke that does great damage and slows the targets affected. Dark Ritual is best used with a Rod of Necromancy to provide the Lich with more Novas. Frost Armor is a very situational spell that causes distractions from the Lich's main goal: Frost Nova. Death and Decay is also an interesting spell, that destroys trees and does percentage damage over time, a more situational ultimate. Find yourself picking Nova/Ritual most of the time, though some swear by a level of Frost Armor in between Novas sometimes.
Crypt Lord: The new hero to TFT, used mainly as a 3rd hero, but a good starter when matched against Orc. Carrion Beetles is the spell you want if you go Crypt Lord first. Pop those beetles out straight from corpses, cause they have no timer on them and work great when massed. Impale is an AoE stun with a bit of damage that goes in a line shape, the spell to pick when using the CL as a 3rd hero. Spiked Carapace is a defensive mechanism for the CL that reflects damage and adds armor. His ultimate, Locust Swarm is one you probably won't find yourself using very often. Good spell when your DK has no mana or you need to do damage fast. The CL is usually seen picking Beetle/Carapace or Impale/Carapace, but Beetle/Impale is seeing a bit more light as well.
THE UNITS
Ghoul: This little guy is quite fragile but does good damage, is cheap and great for surrounds. He harvests wood and recieves a huge boost at Tier 3 with Ghoul Frenzy that allows him to move and attack faster. You'll find yourself using this unit against Medium Armor units (Archers, Riflemen) as well as for hit and runs on Peasant lines.
Crypt Fiend: Your basic anti-air unit that is acts as a Piercing damage ranged attacker. He receives Burrow and Web at Tier 2, both are great skills to have. Burrow makes the Crypt Fiend dig underground where he has the "invisible" state and heals health rapidly. Find yourself smacking the Burrow key when you have a Crypt Fiend on low HP. Web is a disabler that brings air units to the ground so your Ghouls can hit them. The air can still attack but it can't move.
Obsidian Statue: Heals health and mana over time using a castable aura that drains a bit of mana every time. Basically works as a toned down fountain that has a little surprise at Tier 3.
Destroyer: If you get the Destroyer upgrade at Tier 3, you can use the Obsidian Statues to morph into Destroyers. This Tier 3 unit is a great anti-caster that does magic damage and has spell-immunity. It also has Devour Magic, which eats up any positive and negative buffs in an area, giving the Destroyer mana. This mana is used for Orb of Annihilation which adds 20- damage to the Destroyer and allows him to do splash damage. His last skill is Absorb Mana which takes the mana from a friendly unit and gives it to the Destroyer.
Abomination: Your Tier 3 melee unit does great damage and has high health. Pretty basic really, receives a "Disease Cloud" when researched that acts as a typical poison. Does damage over time but costs quite a bit.
THE ITEMS
Rod of Necromancy: This thing creates 2 Skeletal Warriors that are on a timer from any corpse. This means the corpses generated from your Graveyard, creep corpses, or even those Sheeps that you find walking around. You'll find yourself buying this item almost all the time since it works as a Mana Potion for the Lich, as well as a valuable creeping/harassing tool.
Dust of Appearance: Threw this in here cause it's often used vs NE. And if you're smart it's used in mirror vs. fiends or crypt lord. Click it and it coats units around your hero with Appearance Dust, rendering them visible when invisible for a certain amount of time. Great against that pesky Blademaster as well as hiding Archers.
THE STRATEGIES!! - Sorry it took so long...
Mass Ghouls Tier 1 Push: Commonly used against NE where you skip your early tech and set up another Crypt pumping Ghouls. Can also be used against Human if you grab a Lich (hurts a crapload if he's fast expanding). CL works with Beetles vs. Human and maybe Orc.
Quick Tech Tier 3 with Ghouls: One of the most popular strats, this involves you going DK/Lich/Crypt Lord (pull out Lich/CL vs. NE if you need a stronger Coil, or CL if you're low on hero levels) and harassing as much as possible with DK while creeping with Ghouls. On Tier 2 all you need is a Slaughterhouse, a Lich and your Tier 3 tech. Frenzy Ghouls/Statues work well when jacking Night Elf Tree of Life or when attacking Peasants. Be prepared to defend your Tier 3 tech to the death.
Fiends: Commonly used vs. Orc, this can be CL/DK/Lich or DK/CL/Lich. Creep creep creep, defend until you have Tier 3. Heroes play a huge role in this as well as your burrow micro, make sure you have good positioning also.
Necrowagon: Probably only used vs. Orc simply because Elf has Wisps and Human has Dispel. Spirit Walkers aren't very common meaning you can just overwhelm them with Skeletons if you play your cards right. DK/Dreadlord or DK/Lich, don't tech to Tier 3 too early.
Mass Gargs: Used commonly vs. Nightelf and UD. Gargs are great for harassing workers as well as being good scouts for expos (and potentially destroying them). This can make your opponent go nuts, just make sure you can defend yourself at home.
Fast Expansion: Don't see this much but it can lead to a Tri-Crypt attack. Fast expansions work best with a Dreadlord using sleep or a DK coiling to minimize damage to your Ghouls. Sleep surrounds are cake thanks to your assload of Ghouls.
Frost Wyrm tech: Don't see this much.. I'd say Frosties are best in FFA or accompanied by Fiends if you have an expo. They cost a LOT to make and if you're opponent scouts it you're pretty much screwed.
Mass Banshees: Well.. it's incredibly hard to pull off but if you can do it then you've pretty much secured the game for yourself depending on what you're Possessing. Otherwise I highly advise against this.
Abomination with Necros: A bit strange but Unholy Frenzied Aboms are really strong, try to avoid Dispel as much as possible because Necros blow vs. Dispel/Wisps.
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
You can't win a war by getting Gargs quick, this isn't exactly RoC where air > all. That is, if your enemy is an idiot and decides to go something dumb like mass hunts for the whole game . Go with either goon's or G's strategy, but make alterations of the fly. I myself like to Pit Lord it, cause 50% dr can be a truly nasty debuff for 15 seconds. Especially when you mix cripple into the pile. I also like to use UF on my aboms and pl, since they because just as fast as tauren. Skulls or a dreadlord can easily make up for the 2-4hp/sec loss.
. Go with either goon's or G's strategy, but make alterations of the fly. I myself like to Pit Lord it, cause 50% dr can be a truly nasty debuff for 15 seconds. Especially when you mix cripple into the pile. I also like to use UF on my aboms and pl, since they because just as fast as tauren. Skulls or a dreadlord can easily make up for the 2-4hp/sec loss.Common strategy for UD vs. ORC is called Fiendshee. Go DK+Pitlord+Spiders+Banshees. It's common because at tier 2, orcs will push the advantage they have on us Undeads with their grunt/raiders/wyvern. At tier 2 the Banshee Curse+Howl of Terror provides severe damage reduction to your army...and if you can use this to survive the tier 2 push and make it to destros, then you have much better chance vs. orc.
Revelade
BattleForums Member
Necs baby.
If you can harass them good enough, you'll buy enough time to lay some temples down and go attack. You'll want 2 temples and 1 house. Bring a sac skull and scrolls of protection along the way.
Against human, just go DK, wagon, necs and stat and try to kill the arcane sanctum fast.
Against orc, summon attack move. They won't have walkers unless they have scouted you earlier.
Against elf, it can be done, but you have to snipe those wisps.
Against other UD, forget the wagon and just come barging in with necs and a stat or two.
It's fun and I've had a good number of wins with this.
If you can harass them good enough, you'll buy enough time to lay some temples down and go attack. You'll want 2 temples and 1 house. Bring a sac skull and scrolls of protection along the way.
Against human, just go DK, wagon, necs and stat and try to kill the arcane sanctum fast.
Against orc, summon attack move. They won't have walkers unless they have scouted you earlier.
Against elf, it can be done, but you have to snipe those wisps.
Against other UD, forget the wagon and just come barging in with necs and a stat or two.
It's fun and I've had a good number of wins with this.
doing the nec thing is hardest for me against HU and NE, becuz they get their dispells early, but UD and ORC are too easy, becuz UD only have obs statues and orc only have walkers, but they are rare and u dont have to harrass them early to slow their tech down, unless they get wyverns/tauren or wyrms......they are deadly. also u can get necs within 5-10 mins if u tech with no units
brightlight
Member!
Forget strategies like necrowagon if u wanna get good in ud.
Ghouls works like zergling in sc in begging of the game. If u wanna rush maybe u should double crypt no graveyard and push after lvling dk fast to lvl 2. But never ghoul rush orc, it just wont cut it. Human it can work, but you gotta have good micro. Best vs ne or ud.
The key to gargoyle is harass, its like mutalisk in sc. Hit and run, but fighting their army head on is suicide. Only works vs ud and ne.. It can work on human but they'll just tower up likemad.
Then there is the fiend build. Works vs all race, but most effective on orcs and human.
Try out ghouls/gargs or fiends/destroyers. Keep in mind to powerlevel and harass. What's so deadly about ud is hit and runs, use it!
What i found about that fiendshee thing was.. -_-; You need two things, early game advantage and number advantage. you will find that raiders with low hp escapes way too many times without frost nova. Keep in mind if u get disadvantage like loosing couple of fiends in the begging this strat will not work. This seems to work best when orc goes farseer and shadowuhnter. just that shockwave really hurts the banshees. Keep in mind smaller his and your army is stronger the magic of hero becomes and less units to cast curse. Meaning keep fighting try to keep eachother's army small.
But don't expect learning ud overnight, ud is extremly hard race to play.
Ghouls works like zergling in sc in begging of the game. If u wanna rush maybe u should double crypt no graveyard and push after lvling dk fast to lvl 2. But never ghoul rush orc, it just wont cut it. Human it can work, but you gotta have good micro. Best vs ne or ud.
The key to gargoyle is harass, its like mutalisk in sc. Hit and run, but fighting their army head on is suicide. Only works vs ud and ne.. It can work on human but they'll just tower up likemad.
Then there is the fiend build. Works vs all race, but most effective on orcs and human.
Try out ghouls/gargs or fiends/destroyers. Keep in mind to powerlevel and harass. What's so deadly about ud is hit and runs, use it!
What i found about that fiendshee thing was.. -_-; You need two things, early game advantage and number advantage. you will find that raiders with low hp escapes way too many times without frost nova. Keep in mind if u get disadvantage like loosing couple of fiends in the begging this strat will not work. This seems to work best when orc goes farseer and shadowuhnter. just that shockwave really hurts the banshees. Keep in mind smaller his and your army is stronger the magic of hero becomes and less units to cast curse. Meaning keep fighting try to keep eachother's army small.
But don't expect learning ud overnight, ud is extremly hard race to play.
HispanicPaulo
Member!
dude waht you have to do is to hiude your banshees in da back of veryones army as soon as your teamates enagage in da opposing team send in teh banshees quickly to posseess their untis
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
However, you also need to take into consideration the damage they take while possessing. You need to engage in deadlock or use your Frost Nova to slow them down and possess the units. Aim for t3 melee, or casters you may use.
I have used banshees before and I have managed to possess tauren and some doctors many times. Just keeping the banshees alive and the possessed are the real challenge.
I have used banshees before and I have managed to possess tauren and some doctors many times. Just keeping the banshees alive and the possessed are the real challenge.
HispanicPaulo
Member!
yo HELLWOLF is comepletly right, i say its beast to get some aboms wit those bansheees and then have ur aboms engage them (as a distraction) and while your aboms are fighting possesa ll dem bytches!!!!!!!!
ok wtf WHY DOES IT SAYTOTAL NEWBIE?????
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ok wtf WHY DOES IT SAYTOTAL NEWBIE?????
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Lich is way over-rated in UDvsOrc matchup, i don't know why people insist on forcing the use of this hero, he is next to worthless. Unless you're trying to tickle some grunts or something. Also, you will never have the advantage at tier 2 vs Orc, this is the whole thing with this matchup. Orcs will no matter what completly own UD at tier2 with their dual beastiaries. I personally don't like fiendshee, ****in banshees die to fast. But it works for people with better micro. Also, no matter what, you lose some fiends in the beginning of any game and you're screwed, has nothing to do with fiendshee strat in particular. Fiendshee again, is not going to end the game at tier 2, the object of the strat is to ****in survive the inevitable Orc tier 2 assault, which ****ing pwns undeads with their mass damage army, until we get to destroyer or wyrms....brightlight said:
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
Revelade discussed why in one topic. Because the Orc has no fast attack units except for the Kodo, they succumb to slow a lot worse then most of the races. Starting with a lich, then he used Frost Armor on his ghouls and himself to increase thier armor, therefore slowing thier attakc speeds down and forcing thier rush to go down the drain.
Venice_native
Premium Member
Stratagies are against the rules and Blizzard will ban your cd key if they discover your are using them.
*Turok
Member!
Best Way To Posses Is To Cast AMS on ur banshees B4 Possesion and try to distract him by focusing on his heroes +castin coild+nova while using posses on his army like this he wont be able to stop possession and take care of his hero aka=tp. Gg ^ ^
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
Be warned not to try to fly banshees into real players that can easily ff piercing on them. One dumbass I faced tried to possess my rifles on open ground in one game. Made him leave after I insulted him.
ChrisH36
Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
I hardely doubt they can pull off wyverns with Raiders unless they expand. I myself do Grunts/Raiders but I also get demos. They are devastating to structures and are the night elf killers without having to get Headhunters.G-Blunted said:
But the fiendshee is terrible to enemies. Especially when you start to possess thier men and turn them against them. Especially units like thier tauren, kodos, some of thier casters or even raiders if you need to pin off ground easily.
Fast win - Dh/hunts and micro hard. Use invis at night.xDxxTx said:
Long game warfare - Bearads with alterations, but you must harass still.
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