Evolution or Creation

[BliZZard]

Originally posted by freestyler
U know what gets me annoyed! with what 'Banthedoc' said, how scientists have faith in bloody evolution, and how it's just a theory! Well, I'll tell ya, u need a lot more faith to solely trust and beleive in Evolution than u do in creation! And another thing, if it's only a theory, and not a religion (as it seems to be these days) how can anyone justify 'brainwashing' young school kids that it's true, when they cant even bloody understand it in any depth at all!? It's one of the most complecated theories on the planet! One more thing, if u ever did bioligy in Hschool, STRAIGHT AWAY with a little thought, u just CANT believe that evolution is true. The body is SO complex and unimagineably amazing! just one point. The human body at it's present state, would not be able to function properly with any part missing, so how can u explain the point in time when humans were still developing livers? or ears?, or mouths? or hmmmmm rectums? lol

I guess the Theory of evolution (i'm talking about the mechanism of evolution through natural selection, and not the idea of change through time) tries to explain everything at once, ending up confusing everyone (some religious cults use the method of confusion too ), and therefore explainig nothing. I think Darwinism, in our days, is more ideology than science. But i think the idea of evolution (change trough time) is not absurd.

 

[bamthedoc]

Not at all absurd. Neo-Creationist believe that evolution occurs under the direction of man and of GOD. But we also believe that everything was originally created by HIM.

Oh, and MacMan, I found that site's URL, but, when I checked it out, I got a 404 error that lead to a porn site. So...I can't post the URL. I talked to someone who knew what happened to it. Apparently they had a redirect up for a while, but he didn't remember what the new site's URL was. So...sorry about that.

 

[MacMan]

Oh no, that's fine. Heh, reading your post again, that's funny as hell. I would ask you though, do you own a copy of The Origin of Species?

 

[BliZZard]

To add something to this debate, Lynn Margulis said that the number of steps to go from the chemical componets of life to bacteria is larger than the number of steps needed to go from a bacteria to man. However, we know that photosythetic (a complex set of reactions) bacteria existed on earth almost 4 billion years ago. These bacteria came to existence short after the earth presented survival conditions. The window of oportunity, for the origin of life since the earth cooled enough for life processes to happen, is very small and some scientists reduce it to zero.
With this picture, how can an evolutionary hypothesis work to create life. It doesn't seem obvious and easy to me.

I have other questions and doubts (i'll post them latter) that maybe TempestStorm can answer. These things seem to be very easy for him.

 

[BliZZard]

Originally posted by bamthedoc
Not at all absurd. Neo-Creationist believe that evolution occurs under the direction of man and of GOD. But we also believe that everything was originally created by HIM.

Bam, you are always saying that neo-creationists believe this and that. That doesn't seem right in a science debate. Maybe you should present your evidence or explain better things like the reason why humans can't have evolved from lower life forms.

 

[bamthedoc]

MacMan No I don't, but I have read sections of it.

BliZZard Opinions rack the AS. Now, belief is a cornerstone of existance, and evidence can become hard to procure. What evidence do I have to show reason that humans could not have evolved from lower life forms? Not really. My evidence is my Holy Text (aka, the Bible). But, scientifically speaking, many researching neo-Creationists (I can't give names right now, sorry) are keeping their theories "secretive" until they have what the scientific community will see as "enough" to even talk about it. But, if I get some personal internet time anytime soon (forums can't/don't count as personal time as they are rushed), I will look up what has been said and released.

I can simply tell you what we, I specifically, believe.

BTW, MacMan, can you tell me what was

Originally posted by MacMan
Heh, reading your post again, that's funny as hell.

please?

 

[BliZZard]

Originally posted by bamthedoc
belief is a cornerstone of existance.

I'm kind of a Deist so i guess i have beliefs, but i think that scientific beliefs are different. I mean, i can't prove to myself everything science says (no one can) but science gives you the method to find out the truth about the knowledge it produces. That is a very big difference compared to religious beliefs.

So, I hope you understand the need i have to see a little more of evidence when science matters are in discussion.
When you say, for example, that God directs evolution what exactly do you mean? Does he directly intervenes in mutations creating new species in this way? Why is man different? You said that man didn't came from inferior beings, so i supose you think that man was not the result of macroevolution. Or maybe i get it wrong and it's not just man but all species. In this case there is is no kinship among living creatures. They were all independently created and the only change occuring was that caused by adaptative microevolution (and what if the cumulative effect of microevolution is too big? Won't this be sufficient to create a new species from a previous one?)

By tha way, in the book of Job, he says that he is brother of Dragons and companion of owls. So the bible actualy gives the ideia that man has a Kinship with the other animals...

 

[bamthedoc]

I guess I'm saying that GOD created the "initial" species in the begining, and man was one of them. And, as direction is given, animals can evolve into different species (or at least races). This is actually based on some of Darwin's theories. For example, he noticed that beetlse in the Galapidos (sp?) were different from island to island. What I, as a neo-Creationist, say here is that GOD directed these evolutionary pathways so that the speicies could survive and prosper. Now, an example of man direction evolution would be the dog (among others). We have diverged the evolutionary track of them into so many races. Does that help any in understanding what I was or have been saying?

 

[BliZZard]

Bam, i've edited the previous message. Please read the the final paragraph.

If man was created in the beggining by God, them he has no kinship with other animals, right?

 

[bamthedoc]

Ah, yes, I recall that now. I believe that that may have been refering to the fact that GOD gave man "dominion" over the animals and plants (and bacteria...). And that "brother to Dragons" reminds me of a series I'm writing (and may soon appear in Fanfiction area here at BF or a good writing forum--digression), but I digress. In any case, man has kinship through "adoption" is what I believe. If we don't accept that kinship, we cannot properly "maintain" what GOD has given us. I guess what I'm saying is that without the idea of kinship we cannot do what GOD has asked of us. I hope that helps.

 

[MacMan]

If you believe that evolution occurs, what are you debating?

 

[bamthedoc]

BTW, MacMan, can you tell me what was

Originally posted by MacMan
Heh, reading your post again, that's funny as hell.

please?

Hmm? The best way to put the answer you your question is that I believe that evolution only started occuring after the initial creation of planet and species. Or does that end the "debate" for me? In any case, can you please answer that quote?

 

[MacMan]

I'm sure that it's an every day occurrence for a site hosting bad quotes from Darwin to turn into pornography. Fitting in my opinion.

 

[bamthedoc]

Like I said, it was a 404 error. The redirect was no longer there. And it was his letters to different people, not quotes.