Archon/goons?

[Aris]

alright ive given up on my scout tactic. its cool to do but doesnt work against good players.. and i dont wanna play like a noob anymore.

ive been mass spamming a 4/1 ratio of goons/archons lately and its seems to be workin against almost everyone

i get around 12 gateways going.. make 6 archones and then around 24 goons and repeat.

just fyi this is on money maps.

also ive noticed a second nexus after your first 2 gateways really helps in getting more drones out for getting gas quicker to support this.

what can stop this? the archones are great meat shields for the goons. and they do awsome damage. and because their basically all energy shield, you get some energy banks on the def end and their almost indestructable.

and they all build pretty quick too. and dont take alot of teching to get. also i didnt realize this till just recently but if you do it right you can get dark templars like real quick in the game.. doesnt help much against zerg. but against terran its devistating. it takes so long for them to get detectors. and almost no one makes the missle turrets.. and even if they do make a couple you can usually take em out pretty quickly and then theirs nothin stoppin you.

i know magic users are supposed to kick ass.. but i never use them.. ive tried.. its just too much time and effort to get them to work. if they had auto cast it be alot easier. i cant be single clickon on guys to make them do certain things.. i goto pay attention to keep my mins up and my builds and techs going and then just spam some guys out the door every 30seconds or so.

ive dropped air all together on all races i do. xcept zerg.. still like to have guardians with my hydra's hydra's.. but i play toss mostly so..

if im low on recorces i can always pump out some quick zeolots to make due till i get some more gas for the archons/goons. im almost always high on mins.. but sometimes the gas runs short.

oh yeah and detectors. life blood of the protoss if you ask me. i always try to send at least 1 detector with every 12 guys.

thats about it.. sometimes if i get some spare time i do a 2 or 4 reever drop. i always make the building that allows me to make reevers but i dont always take advantage of it.. sorta like an "in case i need it"

 

[Payment]

Sounds like a good strategy to me. But, I wouldn't just throw away all air. I would defintely add a couple corsairs to your attack force. Get their disruption web, and I think it'll help you out. Plus, they are cheap and very effective vs. other air units.

This is just a suggestion. I think it would add to your strategy.

 

[SkuZZy]

sci vessel will really hurt dragoons/archons with it's energy blast and most experienced players with have them. As far as what can stop archons + dragoons... well, 8-10 tanks behind 4-5 bunkers full of marines and a few supply depos would be pretty hard to get by with just ground... so you'd most definately want to either add either templars, arbiters or carriers into the mix. Other than that, it's a good strategy. Personally, i'd prefer zealots and dragoons though, rather than archons and dragoons. Archons are too rich for mah blood.

 

[Payment]

Yea, with one strike of EMP shockwave, your archons pretty much die in one hit from anyone...

After EMP shockwave they have 10 life remaining...

 

[Aris]

Originally posted by SkuZZy
sci vessel will really hurt dragoons/archons with it's energy blast and most experienced players with have them. As far as what can stop archons + dragoons... well, 8-10 tanks behind 4-5 bunkers full of marines and a few supply depos would be pretty hard to get by with just ground... so you'd most definately want to either add either templars, arbiters or carriers into the mix. Other than that, it's a good strategy. Personally, i'd prefer zealots and dragoons though, rather than archons and dragoons. Archons are too rich for mah blood.

well i was doing the zeolot/goon thing first. but i found that after about 30seconds all my zeolots would be dead and then my goons were soon to follow. archons on the other hand have a LOT of energy shield, and are great at keeping things at bay while the goons sit behind them and take everything out.

as for them being too expensive. not really for money maps. most of the time if im not rushed and screwed over i usually have about 5k of gas and min at any givin time even when i have over 12 gateways and im constantly building goons/high templars.


also i tried a straight zeolot rush once like you suggested. it is funny. true they cant touch any air. but they are tough little guys when their fully upgraded, and fast. and you get a shit load of em going and their numbers make up for the fact that they cant defend against air. and as soon as the base is gone the air defense stops fireing cause the player is no longer in the game. and you dont need much gas to do it. just for the upgrades. and they make really quick.

 

[Aris]

rofl. its so funny. i did the nothing but zeolot thing again.

well, i made like 24 goons/48 zeolots to start out with, but half way through the offensive i switched to straight zeolots. once you ahve them on the defensive, and you dont have to worry about them attacking your base its like their just no reason to make goons anymore. yeah the zeolots cant take out air, but they dont need to. theirs so freakin many of em, and their so fast, and can take so much beating that the enemies base is half gone before they start to make an impact on the zeolots numbers.

and by then ive made another 24 zeolots and have sent them on their way.

and ive decided to drop the archons completely. not that it didnt work well. but with this tactic i dont need to mine nearly as much gas as i did before. which means i can have more on minerals, which in turn means more zeolots.

the only things i need gas for are upgrades and i like to start off by making at least 24 goons just in case they attack first with air.


one thing that still troubles me sometimes. i dont know when to save money to start building more gateways instead of continueing to tech up.

this is how i usually play out my game. as long as im not rushed and ****ed over good early in the game.

i usually make 2 gateways off the bat, then i'll make a forge, 1 or 2 cannons, a cybernetics core, then i'll make a second nexus. build up some more pylons so i can keep making zeolots. build 6 of the 12 gas spots that are available. when the nexus rolls in i take 2 drones and give them to each gas spot from my drones that are on minerals. and then pump out more drones from my 2 nexus's to refill the drones on the minerals.

after i got 2 drones on each of the 6 gas stations, i then make a citidel, and then 2 more forges, then a robotics facility. when the citidel comes in i'll make the templar archive. and once the robots facility is up i'll usually make 2 of each of the robots support bay and observitory so that i can get the observers and reevers fully upgraded quicly.

once ive gotten all that done then i'll start making more gateways and also more pylons untill ive hit the 200 mark. i usually try to make at least 12 gateways, but would prefer to have upwards of around 20.

all the while im continuously making zeolots and goons from the 2 gateways from the beginning. and im continually teching up everything important from the forges, cyber bay, citidel, etc while im building all of this.

once i have all the gateways up i send what units i have so far sitting around off to find the enemy and start attacking. and also start getting all the gateways building new chars.. i usually start off by building 2-3 goons per gateway at first and then go straight to nothing but zeolots.


id love comment on this cause im sure its not the best way to go. i'll be the first one to admit im still kinda a noob when it comes to toss tactics.

IF i can get everything the way that it ends up like i posted above i'll usually win the game.. its just getting to that point that is difficult sometimes.

i dont usually. but sometimes if my troops are getting hammered by somethin like siege tanks or something similar, i might make a few arbitors.. but thats usually really late in the game. siege tanks dont really bother the zeolts much though. their so fast and theirs so many of em, even if they have like 30 siege tanks i'll lose about 12 zeolots off the bat before they reach the first siege tank.. by then the tanks start blowing themselves up and its all down hill.

 

[GuArDiAn]

answer to ur statagy

archons/goons -----> newb stratagy.

Dude you must be a newb. have you ever thought about what you would do if someone went mass tanks or guardians, or even storm??

1.) the terran science vessel would neutralize the archon threat easily, making them 10 hp weaklings.
2.)lack of speed units(zealot) gets you raped by tanks. (you could own this using just tanks in siege mode.)
3.)shitty range allows guardians to bomb you while you can't do anything (guardian range>goon range)
4.)no templar or reaver wtf???
5.)using this combo tells that you have a really newb micro.
6.)both archons and goons are large and cumbersome. 5 storms aimed simultaniously would desimate or at least severly cripple ur army.
7.)the zealot is a suberb unit impacting 22 points of damage when fully upgraded vs. dragoons 26 damage, and have the advantages of smaller size(take less dmg from explosive ), and attack speed. zealots own dragoon
8.)hardly any micro.

My recommendation

-zealot/archon/templar
-dragoon reaver

both of these combinations would rape ur archon/goon combo

 

[Aris]

Re: answer to ur statagy

Originally posted by GuArDiAn
archons/goons -----> newb stratagy.

Dude you must be a newb. have you ever thought about what you would do if someone went mass tanks or guardians, or even storm??

1.) the terran science vessel would neutralize the archon threat easily, making them 10 hp weaklings.
2.)lack of speed units(zealot) gets you raped by tanks. (you could own this using just tanks in siege mode.)
3.)shitty range allows guardians to bomb you while you can't do anything (guardian range>goon range)
4.)no templar or reaver wtf???
5.)using this combo tells that you have a really newb micro.
6.)both archons and goons are large and cumbersome. 5 storms aimed simultaniously would desimate or at least severly cripple ur army.
7.)the zealot is a suberb unit impacting 22 points of damage when fully upgraded vs. dragoons 26 damage, and have the advantages of smaller size(take less dmg from explosive ), and attack speed. zealots own dragoon
8.)hardly any micro.

My recommendation

-zealot/archon/templar
-dragoon reaver

both of these combinations would rape ur archon/goon combo

next time you post a reply read the entire thread. i do believe ive already covered what you posted. which makes this post useless. now who's the noob bitch?

 

[SmashBros.Pro]

Your still pretty much the newb for using that strat in the first place....

 

[AKA-47]

Anyone who only plays on money maps are newbs...

 

[SmashBros.Pro]

Originally posted by AKA-47
Anyone who only plays on money maps are newbs...

Thats not true...
Just because you get money faster doesnt mean that your a newb. It just means that you like a more fast paced game.
Although alot of newbs do prefer money maps over LT or any other ladder map.

 

[AKA-47]

I know a lot of players who play money maps, but they are also very skilled on non-money maps. I think the pace in non-money map games is fast enough, since u will have the same macro in late game there. U cant argue that non-money maps require more skill, the only thing money maps are good for is practicing macro.

 

[SmashBros.Pro]

Actually I devloped alot of good strats from money maps and comps on them, but I dont like money maps...
Comps taught me that spreading sunken colonies out is more effective then placing them closer together for 2 reasons.
1. Gives you more Creep to build on
2. AI automattically attacks the 1st thing that attacks them.

So money maps arn't just good for macro, I don't even use it and my record is 48-3-5.

 

[AKA-47]

U dont use macro? And sunkens should not be spread, they should be placed close to each other for max efficiency (for example, to protect u from a marine rush on LT u place a row of 3-4 sunkens in front of ur fast exp and they will be harder to kill because of the combined hp and damage)

The AI thing is nice to know tho...

 

[shrimpshark]

no zlots

z-lots = newb strat if only z-lots used dts and z-lots dif story.

 

[AKA-47]

lol

 

[lordson]

okay
im gonna sound like a noob
(im not that bad)

i've observe dthat your gas dones't come any faster
than having 3 probes onto it

is this true?
does the effeincey peak at 3 or the more the faster?

 

[AKA-47]

What do u mean? 3/4 probes on each assimilator? That depends on the possision of the geyser. Usually, 3 is enough. This can be fixed by placing buildings in the line of the workers getting gas, straightening out the line between the nexus and the assimilator, minimizeing the time the workers spend getting gas.

Its hard to explain, but i have a link to a guide with pictures of how to do it in WC3, maybe that will help:

http://www.rtscentral.com/readPosting.asp?PostingId=906265

 

[Renzokuken]

What is macro & micro?

=)

 

[AKA-47]

Macro is the aspect of expanding and producing units. Micro is useing every single unit to its full potential.