What's on the other side of a black hole

TrongaMonga

Grumpy Old Grandpa
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
10,126
Reaction score
40
Location
Portugal
The law of relativity speaks of the relativity of time towards speed and mass. If the mass of the black hole is infinite, the time there is equal to zero. Therefore, there is a difference between moving from spacial position during the time (it's because of other cosmic bodies' gravity, it doesn't walk on it's own), and the way time passes trough when you're in there. It's like sending something to the black hole. You, if you're outside, see it going down normally, at an huge speed (because of the huge gravity), but it eventually get's sucked in. To the things perspective, however, it takes millenia to move one milimeter in a certain area of the black hole, and it eventually gets slower and slowe, until it stops, for its own perspective. That's relativity of time for you.

And, as I said, it's a singularity, meaning it does not obey normal Physics Laws. Having Infinite mass is nothing special, because it doesn't do anything to the normal universe, since it's more or less outside of it. In a way.
 

amrtin77

BattleForums Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,750
Reaction score
0
Location
United States
Website
Visit site
i get it. time stops for the center of the black hole, where the density is infinate.

but how did it acheive infinate mass in the first place? how is that possible? and what makes you believe that the mass is infinate, instead of just really really freaking big?
 

TrongaMonga

Grumpy Old Grandpa
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
10,126
Reaction score
40
Location
Portugal
It's just a theory, really. I'm not so sure about singularities myself, but what I do know is that to stop the time you need to be either at the speed of light, or you need to have infinite mass (it has to do with energy, as in, E = m(c*c). I can't really explain that well, I'm a little rusty in cosmology this semester.
 

amrtin77

BattleForums Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,750
Reaction score
0
Location
United States
Website
Visit site
to assume there is infinate mass in a black hole, you would have to proof that time is stopped inside.. that would mathmatically prove that there is infinate mass. but it does make sense that because time slows down and speeds up depending on how fast you are going through the universe, that infinate speed would mean time would have to stop.

is there a link between speed and gravity, besides gravity pulling on an object at a specific speed? a link between time and gravity?

Black holes have infinite density, they don't have infinite mass
this can seem to make more sense about the whole infinity thing... but how? the atoms in the black hole are compressed closer than physically possible? what?


if soemthing this weird can happen, how can we be sure that our mathmatics system, which is completely based on what we know in our "normal" world, will be at all effective in a situation where infinity is part of the equation? but yeah, i guess it can be mathmatically proven if you can somehow obtain the numbers of something, or prove that infinity IS part of the equation.
 

OneEliteMof0

Member!
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
Website
Visit site
I got very interested into this and started reading upon many websites speaking of black holes. I found one theory very interesting. This is the example they talked about:

Say there were two different people in two different ships. Name them "Sally" and "John" so its easy to keep track of who is who. Pretend Sally and John head out to a black hole in space. Sally stops before the Horizon to the black hole, while using a lot of fuel to stay there and not to pass the horizon. But John keeps going past the horizon. As you already know that the black hole moves with incredible forces. Even traveling at the speed of light, you can not escape the black hole once you have entered it. As John gets closer and closer to the black hole, Sally would actually appear to be seeing john Move slower and slower. Lots of people say this is a pure Optical Illusion. What sally is seeing is the image wave of john. But as he gets closer and closer, this image wave gets further delayed because of the black holes force. So with each step his image wave gets further delayed. It is said that the second before he enteres the black hole, his last image wave sent would appear as if he stoped, and froze in time. And Sally (Sitting at the horizon) would never see him enter the black hole because his image wave could never escape the black hole. Nothing can escape it, not even light.

I thought this was highly interesting. So from one view (Bieng johns) he moves at the same speed he always did. But the sally's view watching John seems to be moving in slow motion. Each moment getting slower and slower, untill he appears to litterally freeze in time.

They were also talking about "white holes" which is the exact opposite of a black hole. Black hole=sucks everything in. White hole=blows everything out. And lastly a worm hole, which as many of you know has an enterence in, but an exit in a far distanced place. They say mathmatically speaking if you have a black hole, you have to have a white hole. Than he pretty much contradicts himself by saying just because the mathmatics work on earth, doesn't mean they would apply in space. Hey said white holes and worm holes do not exist (to the best of any scientists knoledge) but mathmatically, they should.

These are just purly interesting points id like to throw out there. What are your views on Black/white/worm holes? Do you think they should exist because mathmatics say they should?

By the way:
I think a lot of the people who view these threads gain false information, not because the post was false, just because they misconstrue the idea of a necessary concept.

First of all, a theory is devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

So here is a theory about size and infinite:
Our universe is said to be infinite, which makes all distinctive size absolutely irrelevant.

I will elaborate why infinite makes size irrelevant.

Picture your self drawing a perfect circle with chalk on the ground with a radious of about 5 feet. Now start walking precisely on the line of chalk untill you reach the end, not where you started, but the end.

Picture your friend next to you drawing another perfect circle with chalk on the ground with a radious of about 25 feet. Have him start walking precisely on the line of chalk untill he reaches the end, not where he started, but the end.

Because you and your friend would just keep looping(Because there is no end) the size of the circle you are walking around would make no difference whatsoever.

infinite is a unique instance because it embodys no forms of inauguration, intermediate, or cease in it whatsoever.

There is a linegraph drawn out in extraordinary manageable way to be able to fathom the universe with tranquility.
This is called a "KLEIN BOTTLE"
http://www.mupad.com/mathpad/2004_1/visual_maths/visualizing_mathematics_files/image032.gif
---------------------------------------------------------------------
And to help the above poster understand better about the black holes mass bieng compressed over and over.

Picture a trashcompactor with a size of 10 cubic feet.
Now picture a trashcan with a size of 10 cubic feet next to the trashcompactor.

For each bag of trash you put into one, pretend you put the exact amount (A clone of trash) in the other one. Now the trashcan will soon be full, as the trashcompactor will too. So now you compact the guarbadge in the trashcompactor, and keep adding guarbadge to it. But the trashcan is already full, so you leave it be for now. Although the trashcompactor and the trashcan take up the exact same space (10 cubic feet) the trashcompactor can, and will hold far more guarbadge (in terms of mass) than the trashcan. But their is an end to how much trash you can keep compacting in their before it must be emptied, just like the black hole.

The black hole is constantly giving off radiation. Once the radiation runs out, the black litterally evaporates into nothing. (note-This hole process takes much time from when the star dies, to than evaporating. Its not overnight)

This was ment to help you understand that mass is not limited to size by anymeans, as size is very irrelavant when speaking in terms of the universe.
 

chocofilez

Member!
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Messages
760
Reaction score
0
Location
USA NY
I just had an idea. what if on the other side of a black hole is another universe. like a window. the black hole sucks in material, mushes it and transforms it?
 
F

fruitbasketfb

TreeFrog123 said:
There is no evidence at all of white holes existing, they only exist in theory. Because in a mathematical theorys and everything for a black hole, could be reversed to give you the opposite, I think it is acutally impossible for white holes to exist, but to have the wormholes they were talking about exist they would need both a black hole and the opposite ( there is also no evidence of wormholes either)
how in the hell u know anything can be possible much impposible things have been done like flying to the moon a civilian like neil armstrong getting to be the first man on the moon But if the Dark Hole has a frequency mabye scientist can send a single out to the dark hole and mabye change the course of the dark hold like instead of sucking things in it could spit things out
 

Jimbo

Member!
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
4,493
Reaction score
11
Website
Visit site
chocofilez said:
I just had an idea. what if on the other side of a black hole is another universe. like a window. the black hole sucks in material, mushes it and transforms it?

Lets just put your theory into test.

If a black hole sucked in lets say... an asteroid,or any chunk of material into the black hole,your saying that it compresses it,then transforms it?
btw,mushing it , is transforming it :)

how would that form another universe?



My opinion on the matter is the same as Big-fat's , i dont really want to re type what he said,but his opinion is basicly the same as mine.


fruitbasketfb said:
how in the hell u know anything can be possible much impposible things have been done like flying to the moon a civilian like neil armstrong getting to be the first man on the moon But if the Dark Hole has a frequency mabye scientist can send a single out to the dark hole and mabye change the course of the dark hold like instead of sucking things in it could spit things out
where to start.... first of all you contradicted yourself in the first sentance... you said many IMPOSSABLE things have been done,but then they arn't impossable now are they?

Now i dont even understand the rest of your post,you said what if a scientest sends an object to the black hole,and change the course(wtf does this mean) of the black hole so it spits things out...

first of all,scientists,or anyone would NEVER be able to send a "camera" or any recording device for that matter into a black hole,and have it still be able to record,that is impossable with todays technology.

now u said if we could make th black hole spit things out?How would we do that when we dont even know for sure if white holes exist? and how would we make a black hole spit something out when we have no comtroll over the black hole?


edit - did i bump this thread?
 

Zerglite

BattleForums Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
2,926
Reaction score
0
chocofilez said:
I just had an idea. what if on the other side of a black hole is another universe. like a window. the black hole sucks in material, mushes it and transforms it?
it would be a wormhole

god.. its been forever but i saw, but i dont know if its true or not, that you could possibly make one... too bad you'd need the energy of a star bieng born ( or destroyed )

but as i said, im not so sure..
 

Ashigaru

Premium Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
1,083
Reaction score
0
Diatenshi said:
it would be a wormhole

god.. its been forever but i saw, but i dont know if its true or not, that you could possibly make one... too bad you'd need the energy of a star bieng born ( or destroyed )

but as i said, im not so sure..
The electro-magnetic flux would tear your ass up if you tried to go through it. It'd take more energy than a star being destoryed to create worm hole, I would think, not to mention you'd need something on the other side to keep it open.
 
Top