Z~The Best Zerg Stratedgy

Discussion in 'StarCraft Strategy Guides' started by ~Rebel~{MoH}, Aug 6, 2002.

  1. ~Rebel~{MoH}

    ~Rebel~{MoH} New Member

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    Okay ppl my new strat is a little easier if u think u can do better tell me my starcraft name is ~Rebel~{MoH}.
    #1 Build 3 drones at beginning
    #2 build overlord when ur at 7/9
    #3 build a spawning pool
    #4 always try to get more drones, recources are the key to the game
    #5 get and extractor and get hydras like around 20 or so
    #6 scourges
    #7 1 queen in case of wraiths or tanks
    #8 get guardians and put them at ur hatchery
    #9 keep building ur army with hydras lings guardians and do a dropp off in the enimys base
    #10 if the enimy has turrets or somethin for u cant get in without some dien then send in some mutas for a distraction for the dropp off GL HF!!!!!!!!!!
     
  2. SkuZZy

    SkuZZy Retired Staff

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    You start building hydra's right away? No sunkens? No lings? Also, since when will a queen be enough to handle wraiths? Also, I don't think you need to waste mutas to distract the turrets, why not just kill the turrets with the guardians? Isn't that what guardians are meant for?

    It's an ok strategy, but it leaves you vulnerable to rush attacks and carriers. Scourges won't really stop carriers if they are escortected by some corsairs or dragoons, the only real way to take carriers out easily is by using defiliers.
     
  3. Remiraz

    Remiraz Member!

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    Its usually NOT advisable to use only one build order against all races because against certain races, you can gain *more* advantages in the opening game~

    Against Protoss, it is always ALWAYS better to build a Hatchery at your natural before your spawning pool.
    With practice, you can fend off almost all attacks aimed at taking advantages of your late Pool. (when his first two Zealot arrive with his scouting probe you should have 8 Lings with reinforcements coming~, then 1 Sunken with drive further attempts away)
    This give you an additional base on maps like Lost Temple.

    Against Terran you can roughly do the same with one major difference...RUSH LURKER.
    Terran infantry is formiable, almost impossbile to beat unless with Lurkers.
    On maps like Lost Temple, if you spawned against an opponent right beside you, its ALMOST always needed for you to go 1 hatch lurker rush and try to finish him off before he can get a foothold on you. (Cliff-Tank, science vessels whoring :p, marine-tank push...etc)

    Against Zerg its up to you to choose between two moves : Muta/Ling or Hydra/Lurk
    Any other openings are generally regarded as "having too much loopholes" to be used.
    Yes, there are ways to get an additional Base in your opening. (a la Zerg v Toss and Terran)
     
  4. Ryu

    Ryu Member!

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    ZvP, hatch before pool is only done when you're not taking the natural exp and build that second hatch inside your base. Only on larger maps can you make hatch before pools, on Lost Temple (which I consider standard 1:1 map) going hatch before pool at exp are risky enough to start with, and there are certain base set up which makes it impossible to get lings to defend in time.

    Example:
    ZvP, Either race getting 12 o'clock, while other race gets 3.
    ZvP, Either race getting 3 o'clock, while other race gets 6.

    In those two situations, you have less time to get lings before the zealots arrive, especially in the first scenario. Those extra 10-15 seconds are crucial. I've seen people pull off a 1 zealot 4 probe rush, and hold off the first 6 lings long enough to bring in 2 additional zealots, and if you can't get rid of the 3 zealots 4 probes in time (which you usually can't) when 2 more zealots arive, that early hatch is gone. The only safe base to get the natural exp is the 9 o'clock.

    A safer way to expand early is actually getting that pool first, you can then get 6 lings made just shortly after his first zealot is made, and then you will have more time to deal with any rush before the reinforcement arrive. Getting that hatch just a bit later will not hurt you that much if at all, simply because you will not be using that expansion to it's capacity any time soon anyways, and you should be powering lings early on to deal with a double gate threat from toss rather then trying to pump drones to work in the expansion.

    In ZvT on the other hand, it is relatively safe to get that hatch before pool, but Terran do have some counters to that build, though they may seem rather awkward. First off is the Bunker rush, that bunker will be made and have a marine in it by the time your late spawning pool is done, you have to send 4 drones in to stop the scv building it asap to prevent this, or cancel that early exp hatch, or have started pool before hatch.

    Second is the not so popular but effective 9 scv rush. In fact, a 9 scv rush will arrive in your base before a spawning pool is finished, and that's IF you were doing 4 pool, I know this from experience. However, early pool (not necessarily just 4 pool) will counter that rush if you keep your drones alive by running them in circles harrassing scv if they try targeting the pool or hatch. But getting hatch first will hinder your ability to defend that 9 scv rush, and they can kill your pool off before it's completed if properly controlled.

    In General, you should only go hatch before pool against terran though, against zerg or protoss it's usually not a good idea. Getting that early hatch at natural against protoss is important, but it doesn't have to be too early.
     
  5. Remiraz

    Remiraz Member!

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    *Lost Temple Only :p

    Hardly anyone Pool before Hatch against Protoss anymore.

    If you use a 10/9 hatch, you'll have no army by the time his first probe and Zealot comes.

    When his 2nd Zealot pops out and arrived, your 8 lings will pop out.

    8 lings and maybe 1 drone vs 1 probe and 2 zealot if just about an even match.
    Remember, your reinforcement comes much faster than his since you don't have travelling time.
    Usually I try to hold off the Zeals until I get 1x Sunken up, which is more than enough to turn the tide.

    In your scenario, he gets 4 probes and 1 Zealot.
    You have 6 Lings. (which I don't know why, since if you hatch and then pool, you'll have 4 Larve to work with when your pool is done)
    If he sacrifices 4 probes to keep you occupied, i guess its alright for you to sacrifice 3 drones.

    4 Lings will take out 1 Zealot. (tested many times)
    2 lings and 3 drones vs 4 probes seems about right.
    Micro required though.

    Remember, his next 2 Zealot needs travelling time, while your future Lings does not.
    Meanwhile, you should have a sunken starting...which puts him on a time limit...if the sunken finishes, he will never beat you will pure zeals that early.

    2 Gateway Zealot is very easy to beat.
    Hatch before pool then sunken.
    You don't need Lings.

    Check out Tsunami's website or replays from WCG/CPL...etc
    Hatch before pool is the best start for Zerg v Toss.

    In fact, what I do is Overlord, Hatch THEN Pool. :D

    P.S.

    Interesting point on that 9 SCV Terran rush.
    But if he does that so early, its basically an all-or-nothing attack since he will have 0 economy while you're bringing in money.
    What I'll do is to continue to harvest while running around with some of my drones.
    When pool is done, pump all Ling and fend off the attack.
    The Terran is pretty much dead if he doesn't kill all your drones by then.
     
  6. Ryu

    Ryu Member!

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    We can argue this build theory, but you seem pretty set on your hatch first, and I'm adamant about hatch first failing in certain base set ups, mainly from experience from going hatch first. I used to go hatch first all the time in all situation as well, but after facing some good toss players who really punish me for it, especially in the 12-3 base situation. I prefer the pool first because:

    a) Your second hatchery is only going to be 20 seconds slower then if you went hatch first, and you won't have any spare workers to use there anyways, since 2 drones per mine field is required for efficient mining, so your original base can support 16 drones without needing that exp yet.

    b) You have 6 lings early enough with about 11 drones mining, and the lings that early deter any thought of a zealot rush.

    c) Not having to deal with a zealot rush then means you're not forced to use your drones to aid defense and don't have to be pumping too much lings so early just to buy yourself time for that sunk to build.

    3 lings will beat 1 zealot, dont need 4. And when you're hit by a 9 scv rush, good luck trying to keep some drones mining, especially if you went hatch first. He's not going to be using all his scv to chase a few drones, he'll be spliting his scvs into smaller groups if you split yours off into groups. A terran doing 9 scv rush usually has a depot made and has scvs made at his base who are mining while he's harrassing your mining process. Even if he doesn't kill your base but manage to take out even just 3-4 drones and stopped you from mining for awhile, you're at more of a loss cause he can then recall his scvs to his base to resume mining, and there's usually a couple rines made by then as well.

    I'm a bit confused about your argument that you can stop a protoss pumping zeals out of double gates with just sunks early and skipping the lings.
     
  7. Payment

    Payment Member!

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    The Zerg smell bad, that's why I don't use them.
     
  8. Aris

    Aris Member!

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    i agree.. peeuuusa :p
     
  9. SmashBros.Pro

    SmashBros.Pro BattleForums Senior Member

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    From:
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    .......

    That's the dumbest reason i've ever heard....

    It would be like me saying Terran are white so i dont use them or Toss look like snake people.

    Probaly the reason you don't use them is because you don't know how!!
     
  10. Remiraz

    Remiraz Member!

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    I don't have to argue about anything.
    Check out Tsunami's site and all those pro-gamers replays, all of them Hatches first...and even DOUBLE hatches first.
     
  11. AKA-47

    AKA-47 Member!

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    This probarbly work anywhere else than on an island money map...
     
  12. AKA-47

    AKA-47 Member!

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    Progamers only make hatch first vs terran. In ZvP and ZvZ they will allways make pool before hatchery so they wont risk being killed by a rush of zerglings or zealots + probes. In ZvT the zerg will build a hatchery at the expansion below the cliff, then make a pool, and then get sunkens up at the exp before an M&M rush arrives. This provides a better echonomy (1 drone on each mineral chunk at 2 hatcheries mine faster than 2 at each mineral chunk at 1 hatchery) and u also get an extra extractor so u can afford lurkers.
     
  13. Remiraz

    Remiraz Member!

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    In ZvT its usually considered much less risky to hatch before pool only when you and your opponent don't spawn next to each other (Lost Temple).
    If the starting locations of both players are like 12 + 3 o'clock or 6 + 9 o'clock then its generally more risky to do a similar stunt...some players prefer to 1 hatch turbo lurk in this case.
     
  14. AKA-47

    AKA-47 Member!

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    Yes, but i usually make hatch first on 3 too, and make 3 sunkens to protect the ramp. The terran probarbly wont risk the marines by trying to rush up the ramp.
     
  15. Remiraz

    Remiraz Member!

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    Agreed.
     
  16. AKA-47

    AKA-47 Member!

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    I never make hatch before pool in ZvP, its WAY too risky. The toss will scout it and destroy it. Most toss players go 9/10 gates vs zerg and bring allong a probe or two, and if u dont pool before hatch u wont get enough lings to kill them. A good toss player will have a zealot and 2 probes on his way before ur hatchery is done, and will keep sending more. It is better to contain ur enemy and then expand vs toss.
     
  17. Remiraz

    Remiraz Member!

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    I don't know but in all the ZvP i have played where the toss go 9/10 gates against me with the 1 zeal + probe rush...

    I always seem to get out 8 lings exactly when their second zeal comes along. (3 larve from 1st hatch + 1 from 2nd Hatch)
    Although my hatch will take a beating or they'll go for my probes and I have to micro around a bit.

    Since my Lings have no travel time, the reinforcements comes faster than his and I often find enough time to put down a sunken while fighting micro wars with Lings/drones vs zeals/probes.
    The sunken pretty much ends any further attempts at zeal rushing for approximately 1 minute+.
    Time enough for me to recover and try to contain them or build more sunks as needed.

    BUT what you said make sense too.
    kekeke
     
  18. AKA-47

    AKA-47 Member!

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    But if the protoss microes 2 zealots and 2 probes can kill 10-12 lings. Of course, it also depends on the zerg player's micro.
     
  19. Silent_Assassin

    Silent_Assassin Member!

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    the best strat i think with Zerg is to distract with lukers and run in with devoures&gaurdians
     
  20. AKA-47

    AKA-47 Member!

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    And what do u do until u get guards?