What the hell is going on?

Discussion in 'Warcraft Strategy Guides' started by ChrisH36, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    I got bored and decided to play a Solo match. I got paired with this Orc player, level 16 on Azeroth and 100 game solo below 50%. This game was over the moment I sent my wolves to scout and found out what he was doing and what he lost at the corner gold mine.

    Besides the fact I lost a few units to the slaughter, this is a general synopsis of how I play to some degree. I do admit there is major room for improvement. But that doesnt matter. The only problem was attacking his base with all those Barricades. His plan was probably to force me to attack structures and beat myself to a point where Burrows pounded my men.

    Why did I post this? Well, I want to know what the hell is going on with Azeroth. I remember a long time ago I played a level 29 Human on solo and beat his ass using my FFA strat. Which was a combination of raiders, tauren, docs and sw with tri hero.

    Also, I just wanted to show people how I can play, to some crappy degree. and yes, I do know I have many things I need to improve on.
     
  2. None293823

    None293823 Premium Member

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    Octans constellation. Ok maybe i should make an APM experiment. Without mass selecting buildings in the 1st 2 mins, ill see how much apm i have without it. Your apm seems to me a bit slow actions. However, your oppos apm 31 ahahahhahha. I'll make a comment on your game later.
     
  3. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    Well, I don't do actions like you do. To balance out your 100 APM, you make multiple commands with Rally Points at the start. And small movements with your units like FM or Foots. I do actions that are necessary to survive in combat and such. Like if I need to move from Point A to B, I MOVE them from Point A to Point B, not to diss you. However, in a battle the APM would change. I just happened to creep most of hte game. And even in battle, I still didn't really micro or do actions considering my speed.

    But I was still pretty fast in getting master docs considering I straight teched unopposed, and with no expo.

    However, I seriously need to improve on some things as I said. I could have saved many of my units in some of those battles. I just happened to face an idiot opponent who I caught off guard with a scout.
     
  4. None293823

    None293823 Premium Member

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    Im glad you start to understand that high apm doesnt come only from mass selecting buildings the 1st 3 mins. I told you, i'll make an experiment. I won't mass select buildings. But you can't blame me on: using controls of buildings, using hotkeys, selecting quickly groups of units when moving or during a battle, multiple actions. And let's see what my apm will be. I might accidently select 1-2 buildings each time i build units but this isnt spam, it's fast playing. So we will remove the 'spam' and will prove how much apm DOES mean better control and how without spam it rly can express a better player than someone with let's say below 100 - better meaning watching more, being more careful, more concentrated.

    When i started solo i watch mass replays. With that i learnt the strats that own and a lot of things. Like i dont need to go tier 3 to win. Now as being more skilled and when playing for fun i started using various strats so that i can be good and win with more than 1 strat. You need to watch a lot of reps too, you dont need tier 3 to win that. Orc owns in t2 vs: ud, hu, elf, ne. That makes it all racws -well i have watched not only hundreds of replays but a lot of good players game so i can assure you in that. Otherwise it is your choice what strat you go but someimes is risky fewer t3 units vs mass t2. Also orc always uses riders with ensnare, sw, sometimes demos, the heroes can be all combo - fs+tc, bm+ sh to nuke with bm and hex. You need to watch reps or good soloer games man, it will help you in team too. Being a soloer makes you better in team than learning from team to team. If you know how to protect yourself, your units, you do know that from solo, you become good at it in team.

    Ok now i'll give you one AT rep: just a note that i was lagging a lot and i lost 2 knights and heroes without doing anything cause after a freeze i see my unit or hero dead. I laughed a lot because one of them had good solo stats the other had nothing spcial solo stats and after all the mass freezing we won. (sorry will upload it tomorrow)
     
  5. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    Hmm, so what you are saying is watch the pros like Grubby play Orc and see how they maintain thier APMs above 100? From yours, I only understand how you do and how humans do it. You rarely face orcs and the thing is you get casters against orcs.
     
  6. None293823

    None293823 Premium Member

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    And the replays is another topic. By watching pro players' games you will learn a lot of things like strats and counters, how you can do it with tier2 since this is the standard and not make some starts ur not sure will work. And all tricks etc etc. that how we soloers started learning and with this you can better protect yourself, if you're good at solo you can apply it in team too - micro,protection, harasses.

    Here's the truth about APM, i made 3 games without mass building selections.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    APM doesnt matter in the following cases:

    For short games:
    - When i didnt mass select, but as i said, used hotkeys and controls of units, 1st game i had 135, 2nd game 130. Time is important because if you mass select and ur game is 5 mins you'll have like 200+ apm.

    For long games:
    My 3rd game without mass building selection but was very long and still using hotkeys and controls (118kb replay) was 146.

    Now here's a little contradiction. As i said for 5 mins you have like 200+, for 25 mins you have like 170 (now talking about selections) - i mean with longer game your APM decreases compared to a 5 min game. It's like you divide the actions by the time and if it is like 1000:5 = 200 3000:30 = 100 . At the same time with more time APM increases. Like for the no mass building selections i had 146 if the game had been even longer i would have had more.

    Conclusions: (talking about solo, in 2v2 you get less apm too i dont know why)
    -APM below let's say 130 means you do nothing, you dont select anything or you're too slow.
    -If we have to compare someone wqith 110-120 and someone with 170 the one with 170 would be better because he controls faster and that matters for the micro and the whole game. That excludes cases such as oh the one 170 was cj-ed he lost or the one 110 had an expo.
    - APM above 200 i think doesnt matter much.

    =>a player with higher APM has better control than someone with less and i mean not 10-20 less, i mean 70-80 100 difference. However, since war3 is based not only on control but startegy etc etc a player and if a players isnt good at the rest he woud lose. But APM DOES MEAN a BETTER control - micro - macro - you do things fast in battles you do 'play' with your units much faster than someone who slooowly moves away 1 unit you mover invis, teleport etc, many.


    If i hadnt used controls at all i would have prolly about 110 apm, woud lose cause of lack of control. This game requires from you to be fast in controls.
    Otherwise apm isnt the decisive elemnt for who is better, just a part of it. And one last conclusion: All do it, i do it, im used to it as i make everything faster and i'll stick to it no matter some may thing false. In fact all pros i know + top players have high apm, SPAM as you say, so ? Ok I dont say gG leave noonb cause i have higher apm. I just have it i say nothing about it, pros high levels watch it, so dont care about those who dont have high apm.
     
  7. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    Would replayers.com or wherever you go to have the Orc replays I need that have the 100+ APM.
    Also, what replay program do you use to view it. If you have a link for it it would be nice.

    Orc is the only real micro problem I have. Cause for night elf, I don't have this problem. Because I know how sensitive each unit is (most of them are medium and unarmored) and need to be microed with extreme prejudice.

    I don't mind the T2 part. I usually WANT to end my games at it, before they get things like tauren and stuff.
     
  8. None293823

    None293823 Premium Member

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    Chris, my experiment proved that the very high APM comes to big extent from mass selection. But i'm used to doing it all good players do so and dont talk about exceptions of i know a pro player with low apm. Just use hotkeys, groups in controls and buildings controls, then you don't have to mass select in the beginning as i do and many others do and forget about how high apm you have you have above 100 is ok, no need to make it a criteria for skill. That doesnt make me or those who do it better. I use w3chart v 1.0 M (M letter dunno the number). Yes i also hear from orcs my worst matchup is mirror. Well i totally rule in mirrors vs good players, i own in mirror man thats my power! MAss micro like in no other game.
     
  9. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    I for one don't like my mirror. Especially if they go raiders.

    Damn, I also need to rememeber that I hotkey my structs sometimes, and then I forget to press 0 or something and active them.
     
  10. None293823

    None293823 Premium Member

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    For controls i use 1-2-3 units 4-5-6-7(-8) buildings. Well apm matters only to some extent. I mass select but i do everything fast, im used to it, this is part of my playing i dont think about apm during the game, it comes out alone after every game, i dont follow it. The faster I am in everything the higher it becomes.
     
  11. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    And in combat, you will then see how much effective 4-8 is. Becasue then you dont have to scroll to the map and get units. And also the only real time the person would remember to get extra units is NOT in battle.
     
  12. Bizzy Bone

    Bizzy Bone Premium Member

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    He was obviously much more skilled.

    pwned.
     
  13. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    Thank you for the sarcasm.
     
  14. QuikSilver

    QuikSilver Forum *********

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    Damn it i cant watch it...its for the earlier version
    Post a more recent solo game
     
  15. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    There is nothing to gain from it anymore Quik. It was basically an idiot who made nothing but HH and used Spiked Barricades to take advantage. Then again, I could easily get docs (which I did) and demos (which I also did) and thrash thru his base.
     
  16. QuikSilver

    QuikSilver Forum *********

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    was his name ramsey123456 by any chance (thats my brother and I just got him into wc3...)?

    Anyways, why dont you post up some more solo replays when you have the time.
     
  17. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    The player was Octans.