PVP dependent on luck?

Discussion in 'StarCraft Strategy Guides' started by ArtOfProtoss, Mar 20, 2005.

  1. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    It seems to me PVP is like rock papers scissors. I mentioned this in my PVP guide. For example: If Protoss stops probes and goes reavers, eventually adding a third gate for goons, then if the enemy P pumps goons and goes for an expansion around sixty supply he will die. Heck, you can even get fast attack upgrades and pump goons from an early three gates and he will die. Of course if you stop supply for the reaver rush and he goes reavers and he manages to hold, then you die. As another example, if he early expoes and you go goon observer you will be at a great advantage.

    So what do you think? Does PVP depend alot on luck?
     
  2. -Azrael666-

    -Azrael666- BattleForums Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,986
    Likes received:
    3
    Trophy points:
    0
    It can't be too much luck, because if I played you PvP in 100 games, you would win at least 95 of those games. I know that's true because you possess a higher level of skill than I do. Therefore, I believe PvP is as skill based as any other match-up :)
     
  3. Darkmatter

    Darkmatter Battle God

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,994
    Likes received:
    4
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Palmdale
    It can be luck, I think. Hwoever a larger portion of it, I think is the skills of each player. You know, if they bother to scout, and to counter whatever build you are doing, and if they use spells properly, that sort of thing! But luck is in there, it's just not usually the defining factor in a game. Not usually. :D
     
  4. Renzokuken

    Renzokuken Saved

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,812
    Likes received:
    12
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Zanarkand
    Well no one is at an equal skill level of anyone else. I'd say luck plays a very small role in MU's.
     
  5. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    I mean when people are on the same skill level. It's not strategy and counters which helps you win early, it's just picking the right strategy. Scouting won't help. Once he's chosen his strategy you might be put at a great disadvantage.
     
  6. Darkmatter

    Darkmatter Battle God

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,994
    Likes received:
    4
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Palmdale
    Scouting helps determine what strategy he may be using though. If you keep him on good tabs, you can effecitvely build units to counter his, and win. There is a stroke of luck that it won't work that way, or either his or your part. But from my experience Scouting does help, even if it is just a little bit. :)
     
  7. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    Of course scouting helps :). I meant in PVP early to middish game. If you go observers and goons while he goes reavers you can know he's gone reavers but he can still expand faster and attack you if you try expand on him.

    By the way, nice font.
     
  8. Darkmatter

    Darkmatter Battle God

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,994
    Likes received:
    4
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Palmdale
    Ahh, early game. Well, Observers are fairly easy to get I think. They just cost a little gas is all. Dragon's can't kill Reavers unless you are like me and make a few Dark Templars, heh. :)

    Thanks. Is it hard to read?
     
  9. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    Except for rushing drops, and mid game surprise, don't build DT :)

    The color reads fine. :)
     
  10. Renzokuken

    Renzokuken Saved

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,812
    Likes received:
    12
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Zanarkand
    The thing i hate about teching to obs (Especially early game vs Terran in cliff-maps like LT) is the 200/200 resources to get a freaking Robo Facility. It totally empties your bank account :angry
     
  11. Ntrik_

    Ntrik_ Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    9,687
    Likes received:
    4
    Trophy points:
    38
    why not try like mass drops of goons and zlots with like 4 shuttles :p I tried that once and pulled off to victory.
     
  12. Vadriel

    Vadriel Bite my shiny metal ass!

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    5,318
    Likes received:
    8
    Trophy points:
    38
    From:
    Russellville, AR
    No matter who I am against, if I actually chose toss, I generally pump out zeals like a mutha. They're about fastest, and enough of them will put down anything that's not air-based. Early game, nothing gets out of my base once it's in. Once the game develops, I pull out goons. Then, I win.
     
  13. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    You should really just build enough zeals to survive with your ramp advantage and tech as quickly as possible. If he gets tech units and your pumping Zeals you're screwed.
     
  14. Vadriel

    Vadriel Bite my shiny metal ass!

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    5,318
    Likes received:
    8
    Trophy points:
    38
    From:
    Russellville, AR
    Tech units like what? Reavers? Leg enhancement the zeals and they cover ground fast enough to cream the reavers. Plus they are way faster to produce and more upgradeable than reavers. Reavers can upgrade their armor, scarab damage ONCE, shields, and carrying capacity. Plus, they're slow as hell. Zealots can upgrade speed, attack, shields, and armor. Try pitting six reavers against eighteen zeals, because that's about the ratio I maintain...
     
  15. -Azrael666-

    -Azrael666- BattleForums Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,986
    Likes received:
    3
    Trophy points:
    0
    No, like air.
     
  16. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    You don't upgrade reavers in any way. Midgame you might opt for shuttle speed, but it's not neccesary. Reaver goon destroys Zealots. The Zealots cannot get to the reaver and the reavers pound them. Try it and you'll see. I assure you I'm right. Or, if you still don't believe me, download pvp's at www.yaoyuan.com. You'll never see someone go mass Zealots before goons. Finally, two reavers are normally enough.

    And one last thing, if he has reavers and you only have lots he can micro and kill every last peon and a good deal of your zealots without getting touched. Same if you have low goon numbers. If you only have four goons covering your minerals two reavers destroy that.

    Long story short, your strategy is flawed.

    And az, no :). Only late game air (besides shuttles of course!) is used, and then only once in a blue moon for carriers.