P~PvT: I suck at it!

[Renzokuken]

PvT: I suck at it!

I just can't win against good Terran players. They always go metal on me (As you would against Protoss) and usually drop me, or drop on a cliff to stop me expanding at my natural, or just force me to turtle somehwat, i can't combat it!

I'm really desperately looking for a nice build order or strategy that can give me an egde in the fight against Terran. I can handle Zerg pretty well, Protoss is no trouble, is just the blasted Terrans. Any ideas guys?

 

[Phoenix2003]

There are 2 different builds you could do her and both have they're risks.
1st:
gate cyb robo gate obs(aka 1 gate robo)
2nd:
gate cyb gate robo obs(aka 2 gate robo)

You might be asking in your head, what's the diference? but there's a huge difference.

The first one allows you early scouting and lets you counter most terran strats he attempts to make(including drops), but runs the risk of dyng to an early push like gundam, etc.

the second one allows you beat to gundam and early pushes but loses to fast expand and has the potential to lose to drops.

Just scout a little better and interpret what he's gonna do. not always easy but ya gotta.

BTW,
speedzeals > tanks
dragoons/obs >> vultures
dragoons or speedzeals/temps > goliaths
temps/dark temps > m&m(if he's foolish enough to try it)
sairs >> wraiths

pvt is actually really, really easy. it's all about surviving the first 12-13 minutes relatively unscratched. Once you've done that, you could only lose if you screw up somewhere.

There's another build called the dt drop. It's a cheesy build that allows you to power while forcing the terran to turtle building turrets up the wazoo. I don't have an exact build order for this. you're just gonna have to go with the first 2 for now.

Things to do if you want to win a PvT:
ALWAYS use flanks
NEVER attack him head-on
ALWAYS fight on YOUR terms
OUTRESOURCE him
Carriers(or arbiters) make a great finishing move. Be sure you have strong ground force at the same time.

Also PvT is toss favored. You have more mobility than he does so take advantage of it.

 

[Renzokuken]

Man, i always thought it to be the other way around, where Terran has the upper-hand. Thanks alot for your post.

Btw, would it be wise for me to tech to HT's with PSI-Storm after Observers? Because on a few occasions (Especially against coRtALoS) i've done that while he has cliffed Tanks, i use one Zealot to take some fire while i PSI-Storm the distracted Tanks. So, should i tech to HT's after Observers?

One of my strategies against Terran was to straight-tech to DTs and hope for the best...never really worked

 

[Phoenix2003]

You could get temps if you want. They're good versus clumped tanks(when they're on the move). I use them on occasion to storm drop the terran economy and slow him down. The units you'll be using for the most part are speedzeals, dragoons and shuttles(preferably with speed) especially if you're playing on temple. shuttles are also good for zeal bombing(dropping zeals on tanks and so forth). Yeah, p>t except in early in the game.

 

[Renzokuken]

Alrighty, i'll need to learn this. Zealot drops, HT drops (Which i've done before, but not right on the economy).

So, the way to win here is flanking, and hit & run stuff? And could someone tell me what flanking is, i've always thought it to be hitting them from behind or at the sides, is that what it is?

Man, it sounds like i'm a newb That takes me back.

 

[Phoenix2003]

flanking is what you just said it was. attacking from mutiple sides.

 

[coRtALoS]

That would work in theory, however zeal dropping on tanks doesn't usually work if the Terran player knows what they're doing.

I don't think ANY halfway decent Terran players sends tanks ANYWHERE without air support. Typically in the form of Gols/Valks/Wraiths later on in the game... very rarely M&M. Firebats also come to mind for TvZ or TvP for anti lots/lings.

And give it up Renz... I think I'll start working on my rran strats again.

 

[Phoenix2003]

Originally posted by coRtALoS
That would work in theory, however zeal dropping on tanks doesn't usually work if the Terran player knows what they're doing.

I don't think ANY halfway decent Terran players sends tanks ANYWHERE without air support. Typically in the form of Gols/Valks/Wraiths later on in the game... very rarely M&M. Firebats also come to mind for TvZ or TvP for anti lots/lings.

And give it up Renz... I think I'll start working on my rran strats again.

actually, zealot bombing does work. The problem with going gols/valks/wraiths is that it's alot of gas that you need for tanks. same with firebats. In theory, bat/tank works but it doesn't. the typical toss contains the terran and keeps him from getting all those geysers so now, gas is a limited factor in a tvp. zeal bombing does wonders on a tank push as well as flanking.

I'm not sure why you'd get valks later in the later in the game, but I understand the wraith part. You'd have to be outresourcing the toss to pull that off and not get owned on the ground.

 

[coRtALoS]

Well fine, then let's talk more economical...

Turrets/Vults/Tanks within 20 mins of the game.

Still a little too early for teching to guards/carriers/bcs, and very hard to break. Vults own all light armor, and distract medium/heavy armor while taking the fire from goons/gols/hydras.

 

[Phoenix2003]

Well, the toss doesn't have to be cost effcient since he's outrescourcing you. And he has the "mobility" to do so, too. As long as p keeps you from taking the center of the map and powers and stays ahead in resources and mass, p will win(assuming he can macro and attack your tank/turret/vults well). The more you try to take the center the better toss' chances of catching you off guard with carriers later in the game. I build later in the game when I have the rescource advantage over terran or sometimes out of desperation(the outcome can go either way in this case) or when you try to get a second main.

another good time to go carriers is when terran is doing a slow push.(after expanding)

 

[coRtALoS]

I think I missed something somewhere about out-resourcing. Maybe it was because we sort of went off-topic?

I assume what you're saying is if the Protoss expand early while T is teching to tanks/vults, than they'd have a better off economy and would likely put up a better fight?

 

[Renzokuken]

Originally posted by coRtALoS
And give it up Renz... I think I'll start working on my rran strats again.

Who invited *you* ???

 

[Phoenix2003]

Originally posted by coRtALoS
I think I missed something somewhere about out-resourcing. Maybe it was because we sort of went off-topic?

I assume what you're saying is if the Protoss expand early while T is teching to tanks/vults, than they'd have a better off economy and would likely put up a better fight?

If p early expands as u vult/tank, toss will get run over. Toss will likely double expand if you do an early exapnd to stay ahead, for example. Or if you slow push, p can take advantage of this by expanding and macroing some more. tanks in siege mode are stationary. U(as terran) can't effectively be everywhere at once( like the zerg can at times). And z/p can take advantage of this. This is what I meant by toss have more mobility earlier and using this mobility, p can outresource you. Your units must be in group together to be effective and both races can take advantage of this.(it's a bit easier fo the toss)

 

[MannerTurret]

I tend to do the old fashion PvT build with fast shuttles and zealot speed so drops don't really effect me.