Should you go to church?

[Forged]

I was to lazy to go look for some in my bible so I will just post some from a previous post

Originally posted by Tempest Storm
, this is going to be fun.

Most Christians maintain that the bible is the word of god. Perfect and inerrant in every way, it does nothing to contradict itself, it is divine, wonderful, and perfect.

Of course, I disagree.

Here are but a few examples of biblical contradictions

EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.

EX 34:6-7, HE 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven.
JE 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven.

NU 11:33 God inflicts sickness.
JB 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness.

DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21 God is sometimes angry.
MT 5:22 Anger is a sin.

DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
MT 19:12 Men are encouraged to consider making themselves castrates for the sake of the Kingdom of God.

these and many more can be found at

http://www.infidels.org/library/mod...istencies.shtml

a lot of the contradictions are weak and debatable, but enough "strong" ones exist in order to at least question the bible's inerability.

The Bible is nothing more than fables meant to impose on us the morals and beliefs of civilizations long decayed.

Edit, just realized the link is bad, I'll look for another site tomorrow, tired now.

These arent contradictory I just want to see you justify them.

Genesis

6:7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

15:7
And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

15:8
And he said, LORD God, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

15:9
And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

15:10
And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another


22:2
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.




38:8
And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

Onan refuses. Spills his semen on the ground
38:9
And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

God kills Onan
38:10
And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.


Leviticus

20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

[MarkS]

EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.

In 1 Kings 22:23 it says,

"The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you."

The prophets of this paticular city were in with the city, They were just a sinfull. They were false prophets. The "lying spirit" represented Satan, who God allowed to posess the prophets, while the brought destriction on the city.

EX 34:6-7, HE 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven.
JE 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven.

In Exodus 20:5-6 it says,

" For I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and forth generaltions of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands who love me and keep my commandments."

Moses had made it clear that children were not punished for the sins of their parents (Deut. 24:16) but the children would feel the impact of the breaches of God's law by their parents' generation as a natural consequence of its disobedience, because this paticular generaltion hated God, and therefore were not saved, meaning they were still Guilty in God's sight, and he did not forget this guilt because He is Just.

NU 11:33 God inflicts sickness.
JB 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness.

In Numbers 11:32,34 it says,

"And the people stayed up all that day, all night, and all the next day and gathered the quail and they spread them out for themselves all around the camp. (34) So he called the name of that place Kibroth Hattaawah, because there they buried the people who had yielded to craving."

Quail (paticular bird) was forbidden by God at this time to be eaten. The people did not yield this warning, but ate it anyway. God therefore punished them by striking them with a plague ("prevoked," if you will). Satan, on the other hand, strikes people with sickness without being "prevoked."

DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21 God is sometimes angry.
MT 5:22 Anger is a sin.

By quoting Matthew 5:22 in that way and making that conclusion is flawed. Because it says being angry without a reason is sinful. Jesus also said that it is alright to be angry when someone does something against you, but sin not. Meaning, don't lose your temper and curse them, or even lead to murder.

God is not bound by the same rules that we are. Naturally, because He created them for us and not for Himself. He is a Just God, and has the right to be jealous, because He is the first cause, and no one is above Him, and no one gave Him the gifts that He has. He has the right to be angry, as do we but without sinning in the process.

DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
MT 19:12 Men are encouraged to consider making themselves castrates for the sake of the Kingdom of God.

Deuteronomy 23: 1 was talking about the worship of God that was taking place in the town. The emasculated (verse 1), the illegitimate (verse 2), and the Ammonites and Moabites (verses 3-6) were not allowed to worship the Lord within the town. The general rule was that strangers and foreigners, for fear of friendship or marriage connections which would lead Israel into idolatry, were not admissible until their conversion to God and the Jewish faith.

The purge, however, describes some limitations to the general rule. Eunuchs, illegitimate children, and people from Ammon and Moab were excluded. Enuchs were forbidden because willful mutilation violated God's creation of man, was associated with idolatrous practices and was done by pagan parents to their children so that they might serve as enuchs in the homes of the "great." The illegitimate were excluded so as to place an indelible stigma as a discouragment to shameful sexual misconduct. People from Ammon and Moam bere excluded, not because they were born out of incest, but on account of their vicious hostility toward God and His people in Israel. But if they were to be converted go God and the Jewish faith, they would be included in the town. It was not at all talking about the Kingdom of Heaven, which Matthew describes.

But however, in Matthew 19:12 was talking about marraige. Jesus was not discourageing marraige here, but as a matter of personal choice to marry or not. People may find they just don't want to marry, others may find that they cannot have sexual relations in marraige because of the "eunuch" placed upon them by other men. The term eunuch in this verse is refering to unmarried because of what it says in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9,

"But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them to remain even as I am (unmarried); but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry that to burn with passion."

Meaning, that a persons life who is dominated my sexual desires cannot at the same time fully serve God. The two verses brought up were refering to two completely different things.

As you can see, I have given you answers to these so called "contradictions." I will get back to you on the "justification" of those other verses, as it is 12:30 AM.

 

[Sogeking]

Originally posted by CelestialBadger
I enjoy tearing apart your arguments. So, first question: What makes your pastor an expert on God? Why is my interperatation of the Bible worse than his?

well think about it, the guy went to bible college...what makes him an expert on the bible? he took classess on it. and not everyone fully understands the bible.

 

[Jaden]

hmm i think a key to understanding the bible realistically is knowing the hebrew and greek translations.. alot is lost when books are translated. that could also be a reason, as well as his pastor spending alot of time studying and praying.

also this is just a developing thought but a "Christian" was not something that people called themselves it was a name given to them by non believers becaust they acted like christ.. they were "christs - ones" i thik before you use this label it is not all about believing the bible, or finding contradictions and proof, it is about applying the principles of Jesus Christ to your life.

 

[EliteSwede]

bible is cool theres alot of intersting things in there but church is good to i was brought up as a catholic and thing going to church can educate u on life, its a nice place to go to just get away

 

[Jaden]

yeh exactly.. if church is a chore to you then you shouldn't be there.

 

[Renzokuken]

Well, it felt like a chore to me. So i basically left, then i found a youth group, you could say that's my Church.

 

[Jaden]

yeh same.. oh wait we go to the same youth group lol funny that. nah i think as long as you are getting some kind of spiritual emphasis from someone wiser than yourself and you have people to encourage you in your walk with god it is all you need

 

[MarkS]

But if Church is a "chore" than maybe you should considder your salvation in Christ. If you are truly a Christian, you will want to learn as much as possible, you will want to live sinless, you will care about these things. Like it says in 1 Peter, the sign of a Christian is a life without sin. This does not mean, however, that we will not sin. It means that our very heart will be with God and not with Satan.

I enjoy church. I look forward to the sermon. I go to 3 day national conferences to learn more about God's word. These things you should want to do. It should never, never, never be a chore.

 

[amrtin77]

i dont consider myself christian or catholic or any religion... i just know that i believe in god and i pray to god. thats good enough for me.

 

[Jaden]

hmm what i meant by chore was that some churches just don't have the same annointing as others. and you have to find one that whose doctrine you agree with, and somewhere you can grow spiritually.

Just a question amrtin .. what god do u pray to? and how do you know who your praying to?

 

[amrtin77]

i pray to the god i believe in. i dont pray to the god some guy tells me to pray to. do you know what god your praying to? i dont think anyone has ever seen god. i dont go to church because i think my opinion of god is as good as anyone elses, but some people dont think that way and thats fine too. i believe in the god who the bible talks about... most likely the same god as you.

 

[Cert]

church = gay
bible = gay
no religion > religion

RealBasic Programming for religion!
If me.religion = True Then
me.kill
End If

 

[Cert]

RealBasic Programming for religion!

If me.religion = True Then
me.kill
EndIf

Edit - Wtf posted twice

 

[TrongaMonga]

who God allowed to posess the prophets

Oh, did he? And why?

For I the Lord your God am a jealous God

Isn't that a capital sin?

Moses had made it clear that children were not punished for the sins of their parents (Deut. 24:16) but the children would feel the impact of the breaches of God's law by their parents' generation as a natural consequence of its disobedience, because this paticular generaltion hated God, and therefore were not saved, meaning they were still Guilty in God's sight, and he did not forget this guilt because He is Just.

Just? God gave men free will, however, they were not saved because men choosed to hate him? They can't have their free will after all? Oh, that's pretyy fair indeed...

God is not bound by the same rules that we are. Naturally, because He created them for us and not for Himself. He is a Just God, and has the right to be jealous, because He is the first cause, and no one is above Him, and no one gave Him the gifts that He has. He has the right to be angry, as do we but without sinning in the process.

So, he is jealous because people love other God instead of him, the one that created them. And that gave them free will. Yet again, it seems that we do not have so much free will...

 

[amrtin77]

why? life is a a test. its a test to see if you can make it into hevan. if your already there, why should you have to follow rules made for life. god is not alive is he? god can be whatever he wants. god created us and is testing us with these rules.

 

[TrongaMonga]

Is it a rule that we have to believe in him? Because I thought we had free will.

 

[amrtin77]

no, only a rule if you want to go to hevan. thats what i think. or even if you dont believe in him, do nice things for ppl and im sure youll still pass the test. we have free will so we can take the test. pass= hevan, fail= hell..... or some believe you live again until you pass cuz earth is about as hellish as it gets

 

[MarkS]

Originally posted by amrtin77
no, only a rule if you want to go to hevan. thats what i think. or even if you dont believe in him, do nice things for ppl and im sure youll still pass the test. we have free will so we can take the test. pass= hevan, fail= hell..... or some believe you live again until you pass cuz earth is about as hellish as it gets

Whow, hold it. True, life can be a test. Although, by you being nice to people won't change crap.

Ephesians 2:8, 9

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

and

Titus 3:5

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit."

The ONLY way that you will be saved is though belief in Jesus Christ as your Savior who sacrificed Himself for the sin of those who believe in Him, the Divine Son of God.

 

[TrongaMonga]

Ok, then I won't be saved. I am a Mother Teresa, but I don't believe in God. Then I won't be saved. I make more good to the creation of God than most believers. But I don't believe in God. Then I won't be saved.

Your god is weird. He creates us, but only so that can love him. He gives us Free Will, but we have to love him.

The only thing I can conclude from there, is that god do not loves us after all. If he would, then those that make plenty of good to his creation should always be saved. But no. They must believe in God.

You love to use the Bible as a justification. Have you ever even though that the Bible can be fake?