UD Strategy: The Invasion

Revelade

BattleForums Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
432
Reaction score
0
Location
Glendale, California
Website
Visit site
Summary:

Have no army at tier 1, but harass to stall the enemy. At tier 2, upgrade, pump ghouls and necros until enough. Get to the enemy and unleash hell of skeletons and ghouls.

Hero:

DK works well here as death pact is worth using and coil is a great nuke. The aura also works to help get to your enemy faster. The DL is also great thanks to the nuke, sleep can shut down targets and carrion is great for multiple enemies as well. Lich can work great here. Dark Ritual should be at level 2 since lots of skeletons. You can Nova targets, or, you can try to frost armor your army, which can be possible, since you have so many skeletons. Fire Lord could be useful as unholy frenzy works well with lava spawn and incinerate. Frenzy also sounds good with Drunken *****er on the Panda and Cleaving Attack on the Pit Lord.

Build Order:

Crypt > Zig > Altar > Shop > Halls > Graveyard > 3 Zigs > 2 Temples > Attack

Steps:

Get your acos to your gold and your ghoul to the wood. Make the Crypt and Zig around your gold mine to protect acos. Make 2 more acos and rally them to your gold. When the 5th one is made, order him to build altar and then back to gold. After this, upgrade Zig to nerubian to prevent rushes, then place tomb of relics. After crypt finishes, pump ghouls until you have 5 ghouls on wood. Just before your hero pops out, upgrade your town into a halls of the dead. When you get your hero, either by tavern or from altar, I suggest you harass the enemy with a Rod of Necromancy. If you are facing orc, you might want to get dust. If you are facing Undead enemy, use the wand on his graveyard and target acos. When you get enough gold, drop a graveyard, than 3 ziggs. Keep harassing or creeping, until you hit tier 2. From there, drop 2 temples of damned, and upgrade the skeletal longevity and necromancy adept training. From there, make 4-5 necromancers and pump out ghouls when you can. Upgrade unholy armor before attack at the graveyard. You may need another zigg or so. Now run your hero home and possibly equip a potion.

Strategy:

You want to keep your ghouls in front to absorb maximum damage. That's right, ABSORB damage. Keep your necromancers and your hero safe at ALL times. Once ghouls start falling, use the corpses to spawn skeletons aggressively. Target heros and ranged and especially the dispell units first, before the melee ones. Keep your eye also on your resources and continuously pump ghouls and necs to join the battle. You should have the upper hand here.

Tips:

The key to this strategy is speed and harassment. You have to harass to prevent them from creeping, and it also scouts as a benefit. You have to tech very fast, otherwise, they will have dispell ready, which will destroy necs. Target wisps, walkers, destroyers, fairie dragons, and the Dark Ranger first.

I've gotten 14-2 with this strategy on AT so far. It's effective, and throws off my opponents as they usually expect fiends. Good luck.

PS. Replays coming soon...
 

*Turok

Member!
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Messages
314
Reaction score
0
Location
Battle.net
Website
www.battleforums.com
haha nice strat i would like to see u do this on me one time anytime.... p0is0n_ on northerend
 

Revelade

BattleForums Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
432
Reaction score
0
Location
Glendale, California
Website
Visit site
It works very well against enemy UD players, BUT you have to remember to hit BEFORE he gets destroyers or you are screwed. With that said, when attacking a UD base, move necs RIGHT NEXT TO GRAVEYARD. That way you get instant 10 skeleton army right there. If your enemy is upgrading town hall to tier 2-3, I suggest you kill his slaughterhouses ASAP. Next comes his hero, than his army. Skeletons do bonus damage vs. fiends, which is common for UD players to use.

I haven't tried this in 1v1 matches too much, but it works very well in 2v2.
 

Pickle_Bob

New Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
I cnat seme to make this strategie work for my undead i get the rush anmd then its over....
 

Ntrik_

Premium Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
9,687
Reaction score
4
well it wont work nicely when you have NE or HU or even orc with BM harassing you madly.

But you could just go Necrowagon instead of ghouls and necros.
 

Icedragon

BattleForums Addict
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
836
Reaction score
0
Location
The Swiming Pools
Necrowagon is by far more pricy both in resorces and food so meh... but with necrowagon you have seige so its got some advatages i guess
 

ChrisH36

Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
15,042
Reaction score
4
Location
Temple Prime, Sarajevo
Necrowagon... bah. Attack me head on and I will have spirit walkers, nothing like having your mana wasted by my dispels. It is only a good strategy by means of surprise or you are accompanied with gfed ghouls.
 

AZN_FLEA

BattleForums Senior Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
1,388
Reaction score
0
Location
.
necrowagon can spwan more skellies simultaneously. ghouls are good but they artent really reliable. this strategy wont work that well because the enemy might decide to attack you at tier 1
 

ChrisH36

Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
15,042
Reaction score
4
Location
Temple Prime, Sarajevo
However, you can only have 25 skeletons at once. Also, considering the dispel that might be happening, you won't stand a chance unless you use the meat wagons and target the dispellers. Mostly every person who has necrowagon against me has been destroyed. Considering I scout ahead and often make 2-3 Spirit Walkers.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
695
Reaction score
0
and tier 2 air would murder any wagons/necros you got
lol, I don't honestly see why this forum favors necrowagon so much
 

Revelade

BattleForums Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
432
Reaction score
0
Location
Glendale, California
Website
Visit site
Necrowagon is too slow. If you do this correctly, you will be at tier 2 way ahead of everyone. Like I said, you tech at 20 food, which is incredibly fast and risky, but if it works it works.

Necrowagon requires a slaughterhouse to be placed, the corpse upgrade and finally couple wagons = take too long

At tier 2, you drop 2 temples, get 4 necs or so, WHILE pumping ghouls and that's it. It's extremely fast and works best on small maps. It's so fast, by the time you attack, the enemy will have just started building arcane sanctums...

Of course while you are moving to the enemy, THAT'S when you should get upgrades.

So while necrowagon seems more solid, it takes too much time, compared to the quickness of this strat. And the more time you give them, the more time they can counter, which is even more risky.

But as Samsara said, it won't work on elf. On orc, it can work, but not if they have many towers. Humans it works great, and on UD, it works nearly every time.

So go try this strat.

As you can see by my replay, by the time I came with my necs, he didn't even have 1 arcane sanctum! Speed is what we have here.
 

GenocideAlive

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
This is frequently used and is generally a good strategy. However, after you start your tech, you should begin pumping ghouls. Waiting until you reach tier 2 is completely senseless. Just pump around 22 food worth of ghouls and stop. Don't waste money on rods of necromancy, for obvious reasons. Once you get everybody rolling, walk over to the enemy base with ghouls, leave necros slightly away, out of sight.

They TP in and start chainwaving or whatever, THEN you bring in necros and start Raising Dead. Don't leave your necros standing there next to your ghouls, or they'll TP on top of them and chainwave the necros first. You will then get violated.

Here your major choice is choosing between DK and DL. DL has Sleep and vamp, of which Sleep is very good for surrounding INT heroes and vamp is good for giving your skellies some extra life. DK has coil for emergency heals and his aura/pact are both good with the overwhelming presence of food/targets.

It's a matter of preference, I prefer DL. Inferno >>> Raise Dead, and sleeping a few units can make all the difference when they start going for your necros.
 

UD_PLAYER

Member!
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
hmmm

as you have said it... its risky, so why not rely on other strategies? i mean really if your opponent isnt afraid to leave his base and scout you out.. you are pretty much done for. I've recently seen newbies try rushing in 1 vs 1. in fact they now appear to do that a lot ( at least in some games i ve played). Usually newbie rushes are easy to repel and give you experience but with this strategy it could be your undoing. Besides.. how many times do you play ud vs ud ? Fairly rarerly in my experience.

PS: Maybe i missed something sorry if i did.
 

GenocideAlive

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
On maps like Turtle Rock, a UD player can pretty much dictate terms of engagement. Proper tower-zig placement can prevent scouting units from entering your base and doing their job. I've won many games against L40+ players by chopping down all the trees in the back of my base and putting two Temples back there. They keep trying to use Wolf scouts and they die before they see anything of value. They come to push my base, and large numbers of cold/spirit towers + ghoul micro pushes them back QUICKLY.

They finally get a scout unit to the back of my base by one means or another, and it's too late. I already have 10 necros, a stat, and a wagon/stat coming out. I arrive at their base, Raise Dead from the Meat Wagon, and they still haven't gotten Spirit Walkers out. Chainwave Chainwave Chainwave...doesn't matter--game over. Heroes getting close enough to necs to chainwave are in EXTREME danger (cripple + FF), and statues tend to neuter a lot of their attempts at damage.

Skellies are designed to take punishment, and killing off my ghouls with Chainwave only feeds the necros. Once the necros start killing grunts/raiders, more corpses. The addition of wyverns just means targets for Cripple and Skeletal Mages, FF'd necros just get coiled. It works well when you can surprise with it, but that requires no Goblin labs.
 

Revelade

BattleForums Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
432
Reaction score
0
Location
Glendale, California
Website
Visit site
UD_PLAYER said:
as you have said it... its risky, so why not rely on other strategies? i mean really if your opponent isnt afraid to leave his base and scout you out.. you are pretty much done for. I've recently seen newbies try rushing in 1 vs 1. in fact they now appear to do that a lot ( at least in some games i ve played). Usually newbie rushes are easy to repel and give you experience but with this strategy it could be your undoing. Besides.. how many times do you play ud vs ud ? Fairly rarerly in my experience.

PS: Maybe i missed something sorry if i did.
Though I haven't vsed people above level 30, I have to say it works nearly all the time.

You get your DK, and get a rod instantly and head straight to their base. Your ghouls and ice tower will take care of any harassers (though BM is a hassle), and your DK is a great harasser.

For wisps, it's a slice and coil. You can get 4 wisps if you are lucky (- 280 gold for him ^^, in addition to slowing his tech/build).

For peasants, try to kill one, skeletize (hehe) him, and proceed to slashing. If he ignores it, good for you. Skeletons do extra damage vs peasants, so you can rack up kills fast. If he has a tower... Try to get it to fire on your skeletons. If he militias... it's awesome for you since you stopped his economy.

Vs. UD, many, MANY people I face have graveyards up, so I use them and get skeletons instantly. You can use coil to keep your skeletons alive and make sure the ice tower hits your skeletons, not your DK.

Vs. orc... try to hit buildings in construction. They have the best defenses (IMO), and harassing can hurt you a lot more than it helps you. It's not that bad since spirit walkers are fairly easy to kill and leave bodies. Watch out for wyverns however...

Good points, genocide, I'm glad we have someone very knowledgable about WC3.

From what I've played on West, I have never seen it used against me. I don't play solo much, but in RT games, I don't see it much (usually the fiends, stats, etc.). Seeing as you say it is used a lot surprises me.

The reason I don't get 22 food worth of ghouls is that it takes an amazing amount of money and time. I will say this to you: I do have a surplus since I teched and am still have no upkeep. However, I decide to expand my options by choosing a Lich (level 2 ritual is awesome with this strat), or by adding some banshees for curse and AMS. I like speed so right when I get 4 or so necs out of my temples, I hit.

I know to keep my necs alive. It's just that in UD games, I need to get close to their graveyards to get instant 10 skeletons. In most games where I use this, the enemy tps close to their base since they like to rely on their base defense. I like necs to be close to get some hits in or to get that skeleton right as the corpse is found.

I find DK better than a DL. Sure, the DL has the aura, but DK has speed. With this speed, I can harass the enemy, therefore keeping him to his base, which further decreases chances of him rushing my base and catching me naked with temples. At low levels, the DL tends to run out of mana a lot since sleep or carrion costs a lot. Since I tend to hit very fast, chances are that my hero is barely leveled (maybe level 2, or 3 if I'm lucky). The aura of the DK has speed, which complements my speedy tech I'm doing. I also get the Rod to further enhance my harassing (useful on mirror matches where they have graveyards). Without a doubt, I agree that Inferno is infinitely times better than Animate and Animate also steals bodies that could be used by necros as well. However, most of my games end before I get to level 6, so it's not a concern for me.

Geno, (if I may call you) though you speak vs. Orc, what about the other races?

Orc can't counter this easily, though massing wyverns could work around tier 2. Nova and curse (mmm banshees) could help a bit although. It seems you like to hold your guns longer than I do, but I wouldn't since I prefer smaller battles. Slightly easy to do, though lots of towers could do you in.

Vs. elf, I haven't tried it much. Wisps seem to kill this strategy straight up, killing armies of skeletons instantly. Very risky.

Vs. human, it works, since I use speed. By the time I rush in, people are usually JUST making arcanes. Militia is a goldmine for corpses. Pretty much victory here.

Vs. another UD, roys will be GG for you. Get the speed going, head to there base and get your necs to his graveyard. Chances are that he has a slaughterhouse going with maybe a statue or 2. You have to get that slaughterhouse down when you can. I wouldn't say it's that bad, since I haven't seen casters used by UD much, so roys aren't expected to be rushed to or massed. Probably easier to pull off than orc.

It's great to see my strat being taken seriously for once.
 

G-Blunted

Member!
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
77
Reaction score
0
I like the strat...sounds feasible in RT 2's (maybe AT 2s) and against Solo noobs. Only reason i say noobs is because the better soloers will be very intent on scouting your whole base. And with 2's as well...when they see you're teching by the time they scout they'll expect something strange. In RT they'll probably get confused and try to rush you (or your opponent if you have to many towers) and if you don't lose this rush you'll be fine. But what would u do if u saw UD tech that fast? I'd probably throw up a spirit tower or two and tech myself while throwing down another crypt and continuing to mass ghouls....when u rush towers>skellies ghouls>necs and the way u said it u get there right when your opponent gets tier 2, which means gargs will be pumping (don't have to wait for slaughterhouse, i got dual crypt) to counter skellies + necs even more....at least that's what i'd do....have u run in to this at all? (maybe not dual crypt, but i would)

I notice this is a very old post.....any updates on it tho? Does this still work for you? If not why don't you do it anymore? What counters it?
 

Revelade

BattleForums Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
432
Reaction score
0
Location
Glendale, California
Website
Visit site
I still use it, but lately, my interest in WC3 has been weaning. Once I got on ladder, I lost my ambition to play.

Also, this strat is all about speed.

If you are on a large map, you might want to throw down a house, get 1 wagon, 2 stats and the corpse upgrade. Then you might want to get skull of blight for more regeneration. Finally, SCROLL OF DEFENSE IS A MUST!
 

ChrisH36

Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
15,042
Reaction score
4
Location
Temple Prime, Sarajevo
Every strategy ever created is all about SPEED! How fast can you get the units and how fast can you execute your plan before the enemy figures out what the **** you are doing are all big factors.
 
Top