T~Are Valks really worth using?

Discussion in 'Warcraft Strategy Guides' started by Time4planB, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. KurtSnapper

    KurtSnapper Guest

    valkery is supportive that means you can' win a game with valkeries. for exemple, when you are dropping massive force valkeries can attract plenty of airattacks, much better than wraiths.
     
  2. HellRazor[UED]

    HellRazor[UED] Member!

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    one sentence..

    "Overlord Hunting Season"
     
  3. botting-speedy

    botting-speedy Member!

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    errrrr how dumb are u......never seen valks? valks own mutas/guards mass amounts due to splash, and of course, the classic ovie hunting works like a charm.
     
  4. Phoenix2003

    Phoenix2003 BattleForums Senior Member

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    valks do play an important role against zerg, though. Not sure how they fare against toss.
     
  5. bamthedoc

    bamthedoc King Endymion

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    I know I never ever post here, but I have one thing to say...

    "Carrier Busters"

    I send about 5 valks against two or three Carriers and decimated them. I lost one valk, but it was worth the effort. I love seeing a toss player waste so much resources on that which I just took out easily.

    The most effective units v carrier are scourges and valks.
     
  6. Savenor

    Savenor Member!

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    Valkyries do not fire at eight different targets. They fire eight different MISSILES at one enemy target, which, noted in that Blizzard quote, also may hit enemies in a 3x3 radius around the targeted unit. And each missile splash damages as well.

    In my opinion, the worst air unit to pit Valkyries against (besides the Scourge, lol) is probably the Battlecruiser. I actually find that they are good against Carriers, as the splash damage + 3x3 attack radius around targeted units can not only deal significant damage to the Carrier, but also kill many Interceptors as well. Combine that with an EMP and Carriers are toast versus Valkyries. But yes, Valkyries are probably best against light air units.
     
  7. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    They can help in a large army against weaker air units, but then again carriers and other higher armored class air could turn then into microscopic scrap metal. Great for destroying mutas and guardians (as long as they are not in fierce numbers and don't have ground forces to defend.). But it sucks on defense maps (UMS ones) as they cannot fire on moving enemies at high speeds. Use them wisely, that is all I can say!
     
  8. CuteGuyNo.1

    CuteGuyNo.1 Member!

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    valks are ment to deal with small air units such as cosair,wraith,muta,scourges,ovie
    valks are not ment to attack bc/carrier/gaurds/dev because it is just plain useless to attack with 6 missle per hit and decreas those from base amour of the high teched air
    tank deal damage less to stacked lurk because for each splash dealt to burrowed unit it decreases, and sometimes it's the same depending on how the tank shot shoot from(a bit too the left or a bit too the right)
    the only real use for valks is to stop wraith in TvT, cosair deweb user in TvP and muta harass in TvZ, the effective of valk comes in 5 or greater number because of the massive damage with spleahs they can deal when grouped
     
  9. Phoenix2003

    Phoenix2003 BattleForums Senior Member

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    Valks against carriers? The sh*t terran players come up with. Why don't you just use a BB gun on carriers and call it a day? How stupid can you be, HellWolf? It amazes me how your stupidity knows no bounds.
     
  10. ChrisH36

    ChrisH36 Guy with Most Posts on Quiet Board.

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    What the hell is your problem, you can't even READ! The post I made was a MISUSE of them. I never would stoop to such levels as sending them to destroy carriers, and futhermore; if you want to make fun of me, go start a hate thread about me on the Asylum and see if I care.
     
  11. Phoenix2003

    Phoenix2003 BattleForums Senior Member

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    Sorry. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.
     
  12. SK-ThaBest

    SK-ThaBest Member!

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    Valks are only good if you get a lot and have plenty of support for them. Otherwise they are useless.
     
  13. Skyhr

    Skyhr Member!

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    I may have some useful info...

    Just to clear somethings... I tested this on a battlecruiser so... and it has more hp than a carrier...but without it attacking back..

    Here's a fact that should clear things up... valks fire 8 sprites... aka missiles... and they do 6 damage... so that's basically 48 damage per 'fire'... so with at least 3 or more valks, you can deal around 150 damage right?

    Not exactly... you see how they fire 'multiple sprites' and not just one missile? This is pretty important... Suppose the enemy aircraft has 1 armor... This takes off 1 for EVERY missile... So that 48 damage goes to 40... Suppose it has 2 armor, the 48 would go to 32... Same thing goes for upgrade... 6 to 7 damage per missile means 48 to 56 damage, etc.

    So I tried attacking one battlecruiser with 12(lol) valks... It died in like 1sec... After I upgraded the bc's armor, I noticed that the time it takes to kill it increases extremely.. Try killing the bc with full armor, it takes like 20 times longer to kill it without the armor upgrades... Or something like that, I don't remember quite well..

    My conclusion is, if the battlecruiser or carrier doesn't upgrade the armor at least once or twice, it will die or at least suffer immensely, assuming there's more than like...3 valks...

    btw, this is my first post... nice to meet you all
     
  14. truepurple

    truepurple Member!

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    Wouldn't the resources for valkyrie better spent on goliath? You can get 5 goliath for 2 valkyrie. Doing the math thats 96 damage compared to 100 both explosive. Sure valkryie might have splash damage but goliath have ground attacks too in a tight pinch. I suppose a valkrie can respond alot faster to needed fire power suppresion though. And definitely have a advantage on island games.

    Course the one thing the site doesn't mention is rate of fire. How fast do goliath fire verses valkrie?
     
  15. Skyhr

    Skyhr Member!

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    Yeah you're right about those things. So it all depends on the situation... If you have enough time and money, you can go for valks... If the player is zerg, valks are probably better... Since goliath land attack rate isn't as fast as marines. If you're against mutas, valks are better though they cost more and take more time. So do it if they're massing mutas like crazy. Goliaths do half damage (without splash) to mutas, so.
     
  16. truepurple

    truepurple Member!

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    Well valkyrie damage is also considered explosive and would also do half damage against small units.

    I just tested it out. I pitted 5 goliath against one of my battle ship and two valkyrie against another. Ship and vehicle upgrades at max. Dispite the fact that I started the valkyrie first they hadn't done even yet quite half damage against there battleship when my goliath finished off there ship.(why this was I have no clue,the damage done should have been the same according to my math)

    So if your on a island or facing a fleet where splash damage applies then I suppose valkyrie have a use. If they wanted to make things more balanced they should increase valkries power a little and make it normal damage instead of explosion.
     
  17. Skyhr

    Skyhr Member!

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    Hmm.. I did not know valk missiles are explosives...learn something new everyday..

    About valks vs mutas... you have to realize that bcs have tons of armor compared to mutas... and since valks have multiple sprites/missiles it's going to be hella lot different. (My other post explains sprites a little)

    Take these into consideration:

    -Valks can chase down fleeing mutas.
    -Valks can kill multiple mutas easily because mutas do not have
    much armor.
    -Valks can go overlord hunting whereas goliaths would be much -
    harder...
    -Valks have lots of hp and armor... (but more expensive, which is
    not much of a problem for me since I have no trouble with
    economy at all).
    -Goliaths are susceptible to ground units like lurkers, which most
    zerg players use.

    But then again, it depends on the situation. If it were an island map, I'd probably go for goliaths... If I went against carriers, I'd choose goliaths... I don't use valks much versus Zerg, now I use irradicate like crazy... 3 irradicate per vessel and can do it to yourself as well... lol
     
  18. truepurple

    truepurple Member!

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    Why would you use goliaths instead of valkyrie on a island map? Thats the one time where i'd think valkyrie would be more valuable then goliaths. Being able to go on the offensive and and rush to the defense of other islands you control without the hassle, risk, and additional resource expense of drop ships.

    Also against carriers is another example of where valkyries would become valuable with there splash damage. Strange how you argue there valuable but reject there use in the situations where they might be most valuable.

    And for there additional expense valkries dont really have much more armor or hp then goliaths.
     
  19. Skyhr

    Skyhr Member!

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    Well, I'm not really trying to contradict the valk's value... I'm simply stating my preference. for instance, I'd choose goliaths against carriers because I usually have multiple factories... instead of building more starports, I'd use the factories to save time. Even if I were to kill them with valks, I couldn't hurt goons, whereas goliaths can.

    About island maps, I'm not really used to using valks offensively... please explain to me how you use would valks on island maps...

    I'd use goliaths on island map because in case the drop does succeed with maybe one destroyed, I can attack the ground units whereas valks cannot in case some are managed to be dropped...

    If I had a surplus of money, I should go for valks, which I should get used to... normally i go for wraiths if i had a surplus though...for cloaking and land attacking too...


    About valks not having much hp or armor: this is true i guess if you compare it with the cost... but don't do that... during the middle or late game, you'll probably have a surplus and the cost probably won't even matter.. at least to me it usually doesn't...
    in the end, it's not the cost that makes this unit better than the other, because you may have sufficient funds, but rather how strong the unit is. If you evaluate the unit by comparing it with the cost, that's pretty much assuming that both players will get the same amount of money... If I were to go for valks, wouldn't i try to get tons of money first? and if i were to succeed, it's not a matter of how much they cost, but whether you have them or not...

    You can get goliaths and have like tons of money left, or get valks with not as much money left... yet valks have more armor and hp (i think armor maybe)...

    in a nutshell: don't compare units to costs during middle or late game... I'm really tired and sleepy right now so you might not understand much...lol
     
  20. truepurple

    truepurple Member!

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    You use the offensively to take out a enemies air fire power. I figured out the problem with my math. Goliath have 2 missiles each that most both do 20e. So for the same cost goliath have twice as much fire power as valkyrie. And alot more hp and armor when added together. Also represent more targets for your enemy to hit. And 5 goliath could spit out 10 missle to 2 valkyries 16 concerning number of targets hit.

    Of course valkyre are much faster and airborne and do splash damage. Still. They should at least have some kind of ground attack or normal attack to make them more worthwhile.

    Feel free to ignore me though. I suck at real time resource management games anyways. Mostly because I get overwhelmed with all there is to keep track of and micromanage.