Strat against UD

[FeRN@n2]

Im new to these forums, So hi!
As a fan of Ud I tend to go dk/Cl/lich/fiends/destros/abos most of the time. And it has been working for me. But I want to know which strat would u use to counter that as any race.

 

[BluddLuSt4Life]

Wyverns for orc, Dryads for elf, Alt-q-q for human.

 

[brightlight]

by the time that happens my mk should be lvl 5, + paladin. Units i would go knights rifles and priest. Use staff on knights

 

[Dream_Walker]

*Moved to Warcraft Strategies.

 

[FeRN@n2]

Yeah, but what about Ne?, I mean, Bear/Dryad could own Fiends/Destros? or it depends on the heroes? what do u guys thinnk?

 

[BluddLuSt4Life]

Yeah, but what about Ne?, I mean, Bear/Dryad could own Fiends/Destros? or it depends on the heroes? what do u guys thinnk?

I think bear/dryad would get obliterated in about 3.2 seconds assuming you chain-morph destroyers or have some statues for mana batteries.

 

[TheoStormhawk]

I think bear/dryad would get obliterated in about 3.2 seconds assuming you chain-morph destroyers or have some statues for mana batteries.

Not quite, because if there are bears some abo would be required and the destro need to be at least 4 to make the difference against bear/dryad.
The thing is that the dryad is available at tier 2, the druid also, and the UD needs tier 3 to get abo +destro research +the statues.

I think is better to strike with the fiends against the NE before he gets eternity tree, and use 2 statues one for mana one life.
I used this alot of times and it works, the fiends go well against dryads, huntress, and claw druid (not bear). The lich goes well with nova against archers (but carreful at mana burn).

 

[Ntrik_]

I would personally have more than just bear/dryad, wouldnt you?

 

[TheoStormhawk]

I would personally have more than just bear/dryad, wouldnt you?

It depends, going straight bears and not getting overwhelmed in the process requires money. So if I have one expansion is more than sure that I will have more than dryads.

 

[zx9r]

If there is a large number of bears involved, some meat will be needed, or your fiends will get overrun, so a few aboms in the mix is needed if both reach T3, but like TheoStormhawk said, hit the NE before they can get master bears, or if they have a lot of dryads, a few meatwagons and some micro will clean them up nicely. Focus the wagons on the dryads, and use the fiends/stats on the bears usually works for me. But all in all, dont let NE reach T3 and the game should be a cakewalk.

 

[G-Blunted]

I don't know about "cakewalk". DR+Dual AOW Archers can wtfpwn spider/destro at tier 1. Bear/Dryad + DH Can own spider/destro too especially if NE gets good harass on you early and you can't level your dk. At tier 3, pretty necessary to get orb on lich so you can wtfpwn bears with the lich+destro control group But also not to mention, dual AoW HUNTS can own your spiders too, with that vorpal bullshit, all at tier 2 (before you get abombs). In this case, switching to gargs is the answer. Gargs > hunts.

Vs. HU...Knights+Gyros = wtfpwn destro/spider...sorcs, morts can also wtfpwn j00 at tier 2 also (before you get destros)...I find though that DK+Lich nuke + RoN's can wtfpwn humans at tier 2 tho

Vs. Orc...Well everything ****ing owns desro/spider here. Well, at least I can't pull any kind of a victory against Orc for some reason. Their grunt/raider at tier 2 just wtf owns all my spiders and stats with ensnare!! I need to learn to lay low during this time I guess and burn mad TPs or somethin...

 

[TheoStormhawk]

dual AoW HUNTS can own your spiders too, with that vorpal bullshit, all at tier 2 (before you get abombs). In this case, switching to gargs is the answer. Gargs > hunts.

Nope. This is stupid because garg is piercing and fiend is also piercing but far more damaging.
Also mass fiends will always be better than hunt, even if it is perfect damage vs perfect damage (normal attack vs medium armor and piercing vs unarmored). I tried this and I always got owned with mass hunt against mass fiends or rifles. The reason is that hunt need to move to attack but the fiends just change the target and also their ff is more effective.

 

[G-Blunted]

Nope. This is stupid because garg is piercing and fiend is also piercing but far more damaging.
Also mass fiends will always be better than hunt, even if it is perfect damage vs perfect damage (normal attack vs medium armor and piercing vs unarmored). I tried this and I always got owned with mass hunt against mass fiends or rifles. The reason is that hunt need to move to attack but the fiends just change the target and also their ff is more effective.

Ya exactly why dual crypt gargs > hunts; because you can focus fire like 20 on the same unit, best you'll get with spiders is focusing 6 on the same unit and even then he just walks the unit away to his well and ****s up all your fiends!! No doing that with gargs. Also hunts can't even hit gargs, so they're obviously better counter than fiends. Also with gargs you can (and should) go to their base/xpo and harass their wisps. With ground units they can well block wisps so you can't hit even one, but with gargs you can harass all day especially if they went hunts. Also dryads cost lots of wood, so with successful harass you can easily get 5 wisps which is very successful harass and will crimp his dryad production. Also with gargs, by limiting his wood and therefore dryad production, you can keep your garg army larger than his dryad army easy because gargs > dryads (you should have gargs upgraded).

But in general, mass spider > mass hunts because of: A) DK Coil, B) Range, C) Damage...but if you open ghouls and he goes hunts and you cant stop him or at least slow him down (kill hunt hall as it goes up, or moonwells or something), then chances are you won't be able to get any kind of advantage by switching to spiders on your way to tier 2 (or whenever). In which case if NE mass hunts on you, make a tower and mass gargs.

You could of course open with spiders and creep...but again, like I said archers will wtfpwn your spiders...and if they are accompanied by DR...then GG...(unless they suck and let you make it to destros)

 

[FeRN@n2]

The easiest way to stop ne as ud is just a good Dk/8 ghoul/rod rush. it always work for me at least, (they never get hunts by that time). gargs are also good as you said, for kill wood wisps/ hunts/ dryads wich are the only counter for ghouls.

 

[TheoStormhawk]

Ya exactly why dual crypt gargs > hunts; because you can focus fire like 20 on the same unit, best you'll get with spiders is focusing 6 on the same unit and even then he just walks the unit away to his well and ****s up all your fiends!! No doing that with gargs. Also hunts can't even hit gargs, so they're obviously better counter than fiends. Also with gargs you can (and should) go to their base/xpo and harass their wisps. With ground units they can well block wisps so you can't hit even one, but with gargs you can harass all day especially if they went hunts. Also dryads cost lots of wood, so with successful harass you can easily get 5 wisps which is very successful harass and will crimp his dryad production. Also with gargs, by limiting his wood and therefore dryad production, you can keep your garg army larger than his dryad army easy because gargs > dryads (you should have gargs upgraded).

But in general, mass spider > mass hunts because of: A) DK Coil, B) Range, C) Damage...but if you open ghouls and he goes hunts and you cant stop him or at least slow him down (kill hunt hall as it goes up, or moonwells or something), then chances are you won't be able to get any kind of advantage by switching to spiders on your way to tier 2 (or whenever). In which case if NE mass hunts on you, make a tower and mass gargs.

You could of course open with spiders and creep...but again, like I said archers will wtfpwn your spiders...and if they are accompanied by DR...then GG...(unless they suck and let you make it to destros)

Man u say that u can go gargs against hunt?
Think about it, to get gargs u need tier 2, 2 crypts, some gold, and also some time (because maybe u noticed that even if the garg appears to be such a simple unit it takes pretty long to train him). So until u get a decent quantity of "mass" gargs I wonder how many hunt would your opponent have?
Fiends are powerfull and super damaging. And not "generaly", it will always work against hunt. The coil will not help them to many times because mana burn is a problem.

Also, he can not go hunt if u go fast mass ghouls, and usually mass hunt is not recomended in 1v1, this are basics.

 

[G-Blunted]

Man u say that u can go gargs against hunt?
Think about it, to get gargs u need tier 2, 2 crypts, some gold, and also some time (because maybe u noticed that even if the garg appears to be such a simple unit it takes pretty long to train him). So until u get a decent quantity of "mass" gargs I wonder how many hunt would your opponent have?
Fiends are powerfull and super damaging. And not "generaly", it will always work against hunt. The coil will not help them to many times because mana burn is a problem.

Also, he can not go hunt if u go fast mass ghouls, and usually mass hunt is not recomended in 1v1, this are basics.

Did you even read any of my post? And how stupid do you have to be to think gargs don't counter hunts better than spiders?? We can play a game, i'll get an army of gargs, you get an army of hunts, we'll see who wins....FYI, HUNTS CAN'T EVEN ****ING ATTACK GARGOYLES!! HELLO!!! That automatically makes gargs better counter than spiders! THESE are the basics. Also I provided you with plenty of other reasons to make gargoyles vs. NE. And considering you even watch replays of anyone that's any good...When is the last time you seen professional UD players not make gargs against NE???

 

[zx9r]

Ghoul/Garg works 90% of the time for me vs NE... 2x crypt...i usually go DK+Rod+ghouls for a quick hit/harass, then i turtle in and out of his base with my DK to keep him from hitting T2 while my gargs are being built, and i send my ghouls to creep green camps for exp, once i get 4-5 gargs out its usually GG if he hasnt left by then. Mana/Health pots help here, allows more wisp sniping and u can tank til yellow then pop a health pot then hit and run some more. Another fun thing to do is when you first hit, bring a skull and an acolyte, pop a tower a slight distance out of his base, not really close enough to hit buildings, but close enough to help defend your hit/runs. also the blight is great for fighting on, hp regen =) At T2 i get DL, dual auras rock with ghoul/garg.

Final note. I ALWAYS go gargs vs ne, and i usually dont even bother with fiends because ur gargs should be able to handle their air if you tech smart and outnumber them with gargs. Plus your hit and runs should not even let them get any air units.

 

[G-Blunted]

Final note. I ALWAYS go gargs vs ne, and i usually dont even bother with fiends because ur gargs should be able to handle their air if you tech smart and outnumber them with gargs. Plus your hit and runs should not even let them get any air units.

Ya not to mention they HARD counter hunts! GG

 

[Revelade]

Gargs are good against hunts. However, once they stop hunts, gargs are pathetic DPS units. He could then march with dryads or archers and gargs would be useless.

Ghoul and gargs? Fire+Haze? Fan of Knives?

As for bears/dryads vs. fiends/stats/roys, my opinion is it gets down to micro.

I see roys getting mana from stats and FF bears, but I see dryads FFing the roys, which are getting FFed from fiends, which are getting hit by bears. Roys can not hit the dryads, but the bear spells will just be roy food...

 

[zx9r]

Gargs are good against hunts. However, once they stop hunts, gargs are pathetic DPS units. He could then march with dryads or archers and gargs would be useless.

Ghoul and gargs? Fire+Haze? Fan of Knives?

As for bears/dryads vs. fiends/stats/roys, my opinion is it gets down to micro.

Ok listen to what u just said. Once gargs stops hunts, it should be GG. DPS or no DPS, gargs can finish the job pretty quick if they didnt go mass archer (and if they are going hunts, they probably wont get many archers) If the NE actually GETS hunts vs ud, they are setting themselves up for a bad one... because they use their resources to get hunts, then u pwn the hunts with gargs, and then send the gargs to finish off the wisps, so no wood, no tech, no freakin dryads. use your ghouls on the archers if they are actually smart enough to try to counter the gargs.

EDIT: And i wouldnt even bother talking about destroyers, any half decent UD player when faced VS NE shouldnt even need or have teched that far. You can beat NE by T2 if you are decent about hit and runs, hell you can finish em in T1 if they arent that great. :nooob