PvZ - Your strategies?

[Renzokuken]

I find that i am at my weakest when vsing Zerg. I've always had trouble with countering their huge masses of units that could easily entail Hydras/Lings/Ultras and even Mutalisks to strengthen their already bolstered army.

But lately i have been training, if you will, against Zerg in an attempt to find some footing and at least a decent strategy (Including a basic build order) against the abomination that is the Zerg.

And i think i've found one. I have only tried this once and it worked once. I started by playing defensively (Which generally a Protoss doesn't do, but in this case, i wanted to be a little different and mix it up) and got myself a Forge before my Gateway and cannoned up against a ling rush (2 cannons did the job).

I then just decided to go mass Zeals (I never bought a Dragoon that game) to stop the easy onslaught of Zerglings (Which rape Dragoons) and the agile Hydralisks (I hate microed Hydras).
But after a while i thought that if he got Mutalisks, i'd be raped easily, so i scattered a few more cannons and got 2 Stargates and decided to go Corsair/Zealot (Zealots to rape ground and Corsairs to rape Ovies and Mutalisks).
But then when he started to micro his Hydralisks away from my Speedlots and rape them slowly, i knew i had to stop them somehow, and i didn't want to go HTs because Hydralisks CAN dodge storm easily. And then i thought that the way to kill Hydralisks is to stop them and what stops units? Maelstrom.

I slowly got some Dark Templars and fused them to make DA's (I had maelstrom researched before i got my first DA) and maelstrom stopped the escaping Hydralisks so that the Zealots could get to them.

Well that's the strategy and i felt more comfortable using that strategy rather then Dragoons or HT's.

The reason for this thread is to ask your opinion, and i am mainly looking for people who know the Protoss rather well and can state how Zeal/Sair/DA can be stopped (Obviously it can, but i'd like to know). And also, if you could comment on the replay, my only beef with that game was that i didn't get enough Gateways and i expoed too slowly.

 

[ChrisH36]

All units come with a weakness, you just have to exploit it with skills of your own!

 

[Phoenix2003]

Sadly, every(few exceptions) toss is weak at this mu(pvz), I'm afraid. You're just gonna have to bite the bullet on this. I can't say I like DAs much because maelstrom costs so much. It would be nice Blizz patched the spell and made it 75 mana and have it last longer. Sadly, it's not gonna happen.(Blizz ain't worth shit). I would so like to go back to 1.04 toss changes with the exception of zealots.(those are fine) If DAs work better for you than temps, then more power to you. I'd like it if you(not you in particular) could use both and not have to worry about the gas issue.

 

[ChrisH36]

Hydralisks also do full damage to thier shields, and they are the basic destroyer of the protoss race. Unless the enemy gets a bit noobie and casts Psionic Storm like crazy .

 

[Phoenix2003]

Thank you, captain obvious.

 

[[Berious]]

Some Critique in coordination with your DA/Zeal/sair strat. the only thing I can think of is microing Devourers atk lag vs the sairs. Mass cracklings can eat zealots, depending on Zealot:crackling ratio, theres always the option of plaguing or Brooding a bulk of the zeals/das.

Just some thoughts on your strat...im probally just being a wierdo though. <3 Renzo secks

 

[Renzokuken]

Well i *could* go HT's but then Psi-Storm would rape the Zealots and Hydralisks can easily out-maneuvre a Psi-Storm assault (Unless spread everywhere, which is a waste of mana).

I like DAs because, chances are, the Zealots would be out of range of maelstrom and the Zealots would catch up and rape the immobile Hydralisks. And they are faster and carry way more shields than HTs. But they do cost 50 more gas...

And beri0us, it takes 2 shots to kill a Zergling/Crackling if you upgrade melee weapons (Which any Protossean should do if PvZ) and i've found no problem with mass cracklings. I could even chuck in a maelstrom to slow their carnage.

 

[TrongaMonga]

You do realize that burrowed lurkers are not affected by maelstrom?

 

[ChrisH36]

Thank you, captain obvious.

Your welcome :doh

 

[Biske]

Yes, that's where Psi Storm comes in handy, it'll force them to get up and move, where your Zeals could get em, or wait and let another psi storm rip up their $125 investment.

What about, later, you get a Reaver? That could help a bit. Or, are we talkin a fast game, no time/no plans to live after 15 min?

 

[PUMPKINHEAD]

well I can't help you, as my lack of english skill :usad.... however I found an excellent page describing "Standard PvZ strat", which might help you alot

follow this link http://www.sclegacy.com/strategy/protoss/dragon_standardpvz.php

and good luck!

 

[Renzokuken]

Actually Reavers would stop Lurkers, so i guess i'd have a Shuttle full of Reavers ready to pounce on any Lurkers.

 

[TrongaMonga]

You can place the lurkers a little behind, so that, when you maelstrom the hydras, the zealots will still be killed by the lurkers.

 

[ReiGn]

Well if the zerg player is smart he'll broodling the HT's and maybe ensare the zeals

 

[Phoenix2003]

nah, just dodge storm wit' the hydys. no need for queens.
As for the reaver strat, just be careful of the mass hydra counter. Make sure you back them with sairs to protect from scourges and smthg to fight off hydras.

Renzo, how do you normally start off pvz? Out of curiosity, I know you do the same thing all the time(at least I'm assuming you don't), but what type of strat do you usually start off with? Oh ,yeah, play more balanced maps like gaema gowon or nostalgia. Judging by the last game I saw you play vs pumpkinhead, you didn't do too bad, but was kinda slow on the reaction time and had bad unit choices. Unless, of course, PH has gotten better since then. (probably has)

 

[Renzokuken]

I've gotten better since then, especially in my PvZ's. Here's another PvZ encounter (Against Ben again).

My PvZ build order consists of cannoning early, i saw this one guy do it and i prefer doing that than going double gate and zeals because cannons require no micro and the way i place them will stop a Zergling rush.

Watch that replay and that it was i generally try to do. Only lately i've found that this just works well for me. My main problem now is whether this strategy will work on other Zergers and other maps. Also, my macro needs fine tuning, i tend to be defensive in PvZ (Which isn't recommended ) and wait until i know i can poon some, rather then harass (I do harass with Corsairs though). And even though i am defensive, i expo late. I expo my natural fast and the mineral-only fast, but after that, i take my time, mainly because i have a ton of resources and i just plain forget

 

[Phoenix2003]

I don't advise the forge first thing against a ling rush unless you're early expanding.(not at close positions). Vs a ling rush, you should 2 gate(preferrably 9/10 gate, if you scout early pool) zeal and hold probe production and send your first couple of zeals to your ramp and 2 probes BEHIND your zealots. Then proceed to do the anti-muta thing. 1-2 archon plus 2-3 cannons at your mineral line.

If you're not being rushed, then you can one gate sair(to kill ovies in your base and scout) to see what z is up to and react accordingly.(like if you see hydras then get storm or w/e you like to counter them, but you're gonna need leg enhancements) I'll watch the reps when I get home.

 

[Bink]

The only problem with your DA strat renzo, is that some zerg players (such as myself) keep 2-3 queens in their army, but I havn't played a good melee in so long I have forgotten if Spawn Broodling works on DA's so , criticize me if you want.

 

[Phoenix2003]

no, broodling doesn't work on DAs for the record.

1st game, archons are your friends against ultra/ling. Could've won with a zeal rush in the beginning. Guess you're into long games.

2nd game, I was suprised he didn't win with the muta raid. You didn't have any low gas issues in this game nor the last, so I was puzzled why you didn't get both storm and maelstrom. Hydras can't dodge while under maelstrom.

I guess this zerg never heard of lurkers.

 

[Renzokuken]

I tend not to rush...as a habit. And in the second game, i didn't want to get HT's, so i avoided using Storm. Those games were merely tests to see if Zeal/Sair/DA would work against Zerg. And like i said before, the purpose of maelstrom was to pause the Hydras so the Speedlots could rape them, rather than using storm.