PVT Guide

Discussion in 'StarCraft Strategy Guides' started by ArtOfProtoss, Mar 11, 2005.

  1. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    My first piece of advice is regarding opening game builds.

    In PVT there are only a few normal builds, which are clear to scout, and easy to prepare for. With your probe you won’t usually be able to see if they are early expoing, or if they are going for a drop build, because they will delay the structure until they kill the probe with marines. If you do see a second factory building though, and it is about halfway complete, you can reasonably safely rule out drop and early expo builds. If you don’t see this second factory, prepare yourself for drop or early expo.

    Two factories normally means Vulture rush, with T trying to beat you to expo punch. Ideally you want to have four goons blocking your ramp, and your expo just starting to warp in when the vultures come. Your goons should be able to block the ramp easily and you should be able to take out the pesky vultures (if they unwisely stay) banging on your nexus at your leisure. Otherwise, if you can’t get the expo started before the vultures reach your expo zone, put 3-4 goons up in front (with that NEEDED AND CRUCIAL second obba built immediately after the first) of your expo zone, and one blocking the ramp, with the probe nearby, sitting pretty on your cliff. If you spot the vulture rush even slower than that with your first obba, at least block your ramp with your goons and have an obba nearby to spot the mine they will surely place on your expo zone.

    If you scout a drop with your first obba (do not pre-empt this with a guess, it’s too risky) immediately start work on shuttle. Make sure your first 5 goons are covering BOTH sides of your mineral field, while parking your second obba on your naturals cliff. If you saw his shuttle angling sharply to drop your main you can sneak in an expo even if he’s trying to fool you, if things get dicey, and he makes it to your cliff faster than you thought, here’s what you should do for damage control: See if targeting only your Nexus, if so, see if you can nail his tanks with your goons, if not, hopefully you have a pylon or so building to distract him until your shuttle comes; you can also, if it comes to the wire, divert fire with your goons. Once you get your shuttle pick up 2 goons. If he has his tanks sieged on your cliff already, drop directly on them, if he has them un-sieged with dropship nearby, don’t drop the goons or you will lose them(tanks are strong!), hover nearby and try to get your ground goons to add fire. If the tanks are dropped un-sieged with no dropship nearby, get as many goons on your cliff, out of the tanks range, and overpower the 2 tanks. This is because he’s trying to ferry up a whole bunch of units on your cliff to take his cliff.

    If you scout early expo you should first throw down your first expo ASAP. If his command center hasn’t landed yet block his expo zone with a pylon. He has to kill the pylon fast to keep his expo lead, so he’ll probably bring all his forces, if he does, blow those exposed tanks and marines out of the proverbial water with your goons! If he’s more savvy, sieges his tanks in range of the pylon but on his cliff at least you slowed him a bit. Anyways, even if you don’t pylon block you’re either going to have to hit him with a dragoons and a 4 zealot shuttle (with no expo you’ll get this really fast, but if you want this game to go longer, do it with an expo), or do the ol’ double expo. Expo either to your mineral only or another main (I prefer mineral only, rS.miniroman says that spot is cursed, so expo to another main).

    On the early expo counter.

    I personally think the T early expo is T’s strongest build, and they should use 50+ percent of the time, but I digress. All you need to know is that it means trouble for you!
    Tips on beating it:
    Watch either of his command centers, if he stops pumping scv’s watch the heck out! He’s going to hit you so fast you won’t have your arms halfway up!
    Watch his factory count, if he is building 3+ simultaneously your going to have some breathing time, you can add some more gates of your own.
    Watch his machine shops, more shops, more tanks, more zealots
    Watch his base to see if he’s going drop, I think this a bad idea for T, and easy to stop, but if it catches you without goons on your cliff, it can be effective.
    Watch his troops, if he’s going straight tanks get zealots and citadel faster than normal. Most importantly, and your first objective, should be to get a shuttle with zealots, that way you don’t need to wait for speed to kick in to be blow up those tanks.
    CARDINAL RULE: T will ALWAYS be able to beat you in a straight fight when he pushes out after the early expo, heck, he can almost tornado you! You have to get your second expo’s benefits before you can take him. The only way to do that is to DELAY. Ideally you’ll have your goon group (~11) in front of his base blocking him, and forcing him to siege his tanks, if not, meet him in the middle, either way make that bastard siege! If you slow him down enough you can get your zealot count up, and get a shuttle. Try to break the siege. If you don’t, do not “abandon all hope“, T probably hurt his economy to hit you so hard, so fast. Just keep pounding at it! Add many gates, and keep ahead of your pylons, you should eventually break it.

    On how to break a siege.

    This is not as complicated as it seems sometimes. The best advice I can give is practice. This is because it does require careful troop control while macroing, one mistake and all those zealots, along with your chances at winning this game, go up in smoke.

    If this is an early, fast siege, it’s probably in the form of a vertical line. In this case clear out as many mines as you can with dragoon fire, then run your zealots up the vertical line. When the top zealot reaches the top of the line, attack click.

    If the siege is more developed the most important thing to keep in mind is not to attack with your zealots at a place with a small number of tanks. Even if you clear out all the mines with goon fire tank and vulture shells will do too much damage. Get your zealots to the place with the most tanks. The most effective T siege is one with many mines and only 3-4 tanks up ‘front’. Too much siege fire for goons to phase effectively, too many interspersed mines for Zealots to get the tanks. Don’t attack at this place! Go for his second expo to a mineral only, try to take his main, find the weakest angle, just say no to being an idiot.


    If you’re lazy, and feel like taking a risk, simply attack from the side T doesn’t want you too. If he’s preparing the front, attack for the side, if he’s preparing the front and side, hit him from behind, if he’s totally protected wait till, when he pushes forward, to expose himself.

    Tips on breaking sieges:

    Observer sight range really helps your goons, mid-game this won’t affect your budget, but it will really help your goons pick off mines (if you’re trying to stop vulture harass go speed first, if you’re more worried about pushes, go range first).
    For fast pushes, after T thinks he’s gained the advantage (usually after you unsuccessfully try to break siege), zealot bombs are worth their weight in gold. Get 2+ shuttles full of zealots when you think one’s coming.
    If you’re having trouble macroing while microing build an obscene amount gates of pylons, I MEAN OBSCENE! Nobody should expect to build up 2k minerals in a game.
    Always move in with dragoons first--except when T is using a wall, then you can pick up some mines with a single zealot then run a group of 12 between the wall. Don’t try to break the siege, just kill this one part.


    When to build templars.

    Many have tried to address this subject, all have fallen short of clear concise answer (normally saying it doesn‘t matter). I will succeed where others failed!
    One T strategy is to build up to ~150 supply without even attempting to push you, as to avoid exposing themselves until they can practically tornado you. This can be devastating if you don’t have double their bases running fully as to quick replace your soon to be obliterated army. Of course, if you have templars you won’t have as many fast-pushing tanks to deal with. If they don’t leave the safety of their base until they have ~30 tanks, they will have to leave their base in a clump push, not well-spread push. Templars in dropships, and on the ground should help cut chunks out of their army. Quickly rebuild your army and break their push. So, if they’re staying in their second base too long, trying to harass a bit to keep you busy, expo liberally and tech to templars.

    Tips on when to build templar:

    Build them if you’ve lost the ground war and need to catch up with some drop harrass.
    Build them if you’ve done a quick DT, tech, especially a quick DT drop.
    Build them before you hit 200 supply--no--matter--what.
     
  2. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    Another thing too big for one post!

    "Quick" Guide to early drop defense PVT.

    The terran drop is a popular PVT build. Without dropships, in my opinion, the PVT matchup would heavily favor T. P would control the tempo of the game, forcing T into attacks and vulture raids that would be ineffective. Because of this, T often uses dropships. The first time you can see these dropships is if T uses the tank drop rush. T builds one factory, adds a machine shop, then builds a starport and researches siege.

    For P to counter this, he must first have observers. His first observer should scout the drop. The second, upon recieving this information, should immediately go to P's cliff. Also, you should cover your main's minerals with 3-4 dragoons, they should be facing in the direction of the potential threat and near the bottom of the screen. Finally, you add a shuttle. All this should be undertaken in a matter of seconds.

    Now, there is simply the execution. If T goes to your cliff, then flys away, then you you immediately expand regardless if your shuttle is incomplete. Your observer should make sure he has actually fled and is not fooling you. Even if he comes back shortly, your nexus will have developed enough life points to last until your shuttle has completed. It shouldn't even get very damaged.

    Now, if he opts to park tanks on your cliff before you expand, wait for the shuttle to emerge and load it up with goons, then immediately expand. If the dropship hasn't dropped it's payload but is simply hovering, then you can expo slightly before you would in the other situation. Regardless, once you have the shuttle full of goons your expansion should be underway. If he drops his tanks on your cliff once you have the shuttle and sieges, then simply drop your goons on top of the tanks. If he unsieges, then pick up the goons and bring a group of goons right up to cliff, then pepper him from below with the group of goons and above with the dropped goons. Alternatively, you could drop the goons out of the tanks sight, then ferry up more, then rout him. Rember: Two goons lose to two tanks, especially if T micros well.

    After you repelled the first assualt, then you must watch to see if he'll add another dropship to his army. If his expansion is late, assume he has. While keeping your main guarded with three goons, now pushed up against he edge of the platue to prevent tanks being dropped and gaining establishment, either you should add two more dragoons to your cliff, or you should build 2-4 zealots for a zealot shuttle. Regardless, you should move your observer out past your cliff and set it on patrol. If you see the dropships with this oberver, then you have a better chance to respond.

    Also be aware he might try to drop your main and your cliff at the same time. If he does this, then he will drop the cliff tanks surreptiously. Either set your goons on patrol, or spread them lightly to prevent this. Your observer should show you where he's dropping so you can bunch up your units before he comes.

    He will also try to drop his main attack tanks sneakily. Either he will drop the tanks in an secret area, then move them into position and siege from the unguarded side, or he will fly them recklessly over your goons and park them on the unprotected side aiming for probes instead of goons. So, make sure to put on goon on the other side and place pylons in places where their is fog of war.

    Mid-game drops are also deadly. Especially to attack expansion with a complement of vultures. If he has two ships, then build one zealot shuttle, but if has three or more add one or more zealot shuttle and upgrade speed.

    As said above vultures will be the complement of his drop. So if you see a group of vultures moving in a suspcious direction (such as a main), then you should know he is going to drop that place. Precautions must be taken. If he has two dropships, then keep the choke of the main blocked to prevent vultures, and keep 5-6 goons near the nexus.

    Also, it is important to keep that observer by your cliff patrolling. It is also preferable that you add another observer by the cliff opposite your mineral and gas's natural cliff.

    Random notes:

    If you see goliaths in mid-game, then resond by putting extra defense on your cliff. He might be trying a goli/tank drop.

    If you see a fast wraith, then watch your cliff closely for turrets and concealed tanks. He might be trying a psuedo-turbonewbie. Either that, or he thinks he is defending a reaver drop or dt drop.

    If he drops with more than 3 ships, and you cannot defend it, then you should consider attacking his main.

    Comments are encouraged. Was my writing style easy to follow or hard? Did I go too in depth? Is this too newbie for you guys? Etc...
     
  3. Renzokuken

    Renzokuken Saved

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,812
    Likes received:
    12
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Zanarkand
    I like it, ALOT. Kudos man, at least someone here knows what he's talking about :)

    This should be given a sticky.
     
  4. ReiGn

    ReiGn Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,493
    Likes received:
    1
    Trophy points:
    38
    *stickies*

    Nice guide sir :loopy
     
  5. Zerglite

    Zerglite BattleForums Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,926
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    ez way to kill terran : 1 carrier ... 3 arbs ..... 40 goons, 20 lots, and 5 reavs + some good imagination and micro skill = gg
     
  6. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    Thanks guys.

    And Zergite, that's not the best unit mix.
     
  7. Pains Requiem

    Pains Requiem BattleForums Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,077
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    north carolina
    matts a newb and since he joined the forums since i introduced starcraft to him after him saying he would hate it ended up playing it 18 hours a day, that took up his life (he doesnt have one anyway) and he got better than me quickly, now he comes to these forums and with only 16 posts he calls everyone Noobs and thinks he is god
     
  8. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    Heh, it's fine. Everybody is a newb sometime and most of us thought we were great too.
     
  9. Phoenix2003

    Phoenix2003 BattleForums Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Antioch, Aiur
    Blizz, are you that Serentoss guy? You're making these guides that similar in style or something.
     
  10. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    Yes, and I absolutely hate that place. My only goal now is to play them sometimes and keep in contact with the few people I know. I'm tired of being sent gay porn. Once was enough, but twice is ridiculous. Plus, admins just ignore. I hate that place.


    Edit: That's why if you visit there I might have seemed a little hostile.
     
  11. Phoenix2003

    Phoenix2003 BattleForums Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Antioch, Aiur
    You don't NEED all those units, BTW. If you're making arbs then no need for carriers and vice versa. If you're going for carrs, make more than 1. But, yeah, use some imagination.

    Blizz, you really think T's strongest opening is fac cc? I only have problems with fac port. Well on lotem-esque type maps, anyway. On maps gaema, nost, blade storm, etc.(i.e. maps where you don't need a shuttle to defend your cliff), that build isn't very good.(the fact port). You can counter fac cc with 2 gate ranged goons plus some shuttled zeals and end the game then and there. It's tricky, though, on lotem-esque type maps where you have to decide whether to 1 gate or 2 gate, but on non-lotem-esque type one 2 gate seems so much better.
     
  12. ArtOfProtoss

    ArtOfProtoss Member!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    927
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    North Carolina
    Well that's part of my problem. I don't like to rush to win. I like to double expo. Whenever I do that it seems Terran has stopped his peon pump and built an attack force of like 7 tanks 7 vults when I have 12 goons and a few lots. A quick push then owns me.
     
  13. Phoenix2003

    Phoenix2003 BattleForums Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes received:
    0
    Trophy points:
    0
    From:
    Antioch, Aiur
    Yeah, trying to double expo can be a bitch sometimes. Have you tried single expanding making more units and then expanding, again? This is what you call the double edged sword. Too bad you can't tell he's fac ccing until you get an observer in his base, which sucks. *sigh* :( Otherwise, it would be quite easy.
     
  14. TrongaMonga

    TrongaMonga Grumpy Old Grandpa

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    10,126
    Likes received:
    40
    Trophy points:
    48
    From:
    Portugal
    I was going to PM you asking about it, because I did do a search in BlizzForums and found this strat. As well as I found all the flaming. That's why I think you should change your nick. If you want to, just PM coRt and he'll change it, since BlizzForums sucks :p

    Oh, and I would consider High Templars vital for a PvT. Specially because they can weaken tanks. And hallucination is quite handy versus tanks, too. Though few people uses it.