Imbalances in 1.18

[Ntrik_]

I apologize if I replied late, but I have to agree with Undead Player. Maybe it's because I'm an undead player as well, but the BM just seems to be TOO good at harassing.

I'm sure night elf, human players can also agree with me.

WW is just too great. First of all, it can be used offensively by scouting the enemy. You can see a great deal of information and this comes at the beginning of the game! You can see what item he carries, what units he is building and counter.

Second of all, if you find him creeping, you can punish him a great deal. OR if he has creeped, you can finish off lowhp units that he is carrying with him. This alone is just too powerful.

Third of all, he does bonus damage, BUT he is already a high dps hero, if not the most damaging hero. This means, even though WW bonus is weak, his already great stats let him finish off units swiftly, especially with Critical Strike.

Fourth of all, WW is great for escaping. Even if you get him to 10hp, with ww, you can easily escape the situation.

Fifth of all, you force the opponent to change their strategy JUST for one hero. I mean like you people say "tower up". It's funny how one hero can do this. Not only that, but you force people to buy dust of appearance, wasting gold and time.

Sixth of all, this results in slowing or containing the enemy. Say someone tries to tech, well, if his hero isn't at the base, a WWing blademaster could rip up workers.

All these advantages AND more are contained in a spell that arrives at level 1. Really, it's not one of these features that makes it so powerful, but rather the combination of them all. The BM was already great without the WW boost, since CS is just an amazing passive, especially coupled with lightning orb. So yes, Blizz did the right thing by nerfing the BM, and I hope they continue to do so.

Let me ask you Mike, are you an orc player?

By default you should know that Im NE. Sure BM's annoying, but I deal with it sometimes, or try lol, and well why dont you try the same to Orc's base? Piss him off until he pulls out his BM

So what are you suggesting, that you just get rid of the skill? Because you sure sound like it.

Ok, I really dont like DK, how he can coil his units when fiend is about to die, or coil my hunts easily, then have uber fast movement aura, and have good amount of HP. I think Death Knight's skills should be reconsidered, especially his death coil, reduce dmg down to 225 in lvl 3, 300 is just too much.

edit

and yes MS, I agree with you, some of these are ridiculous in my opinion..

 

[None293823]

I dont want any changes to other races and when i lose i dont say OMG IMBA. I used to make rifles and casters vs UD. I saw this from fatC, Insomnia and others. Now everytime i do it i lose. Neither of the gosu players, except FatC uses mass rifles to win. Now there is new thing to OMG coil and nova and impale = GG casters and rifles . Even air human can be countered as nova takes a lot of dmg to mass hawks. Now tanks and gyros are better. But according to this article/post as all is IMBA... i can beat madFrog just because i have made enough tanks and gyros... . All is in micro and when you lose and think sth is imba- change the strat , see replays and if you lose again - obviously your micro sucks.

 

[UD_PLAYER]

By default you should know that Im NE. Sure BM's annoying, but I deal with it sometimes, or try lol, and well why dont you try the same to Orc's base? Piss him off until he pulls out his BM

So what are you suggesting, that you just get rid of the skill? Because you sure sound like it.

Ok, I really dont like DK, how he can coil his units when fiend is about to die, or coil my hunts easily, then have uber fast movement aura, and have good amount of HP. I think Death Knight's skills should be reconsidered, especially his death coil, reduce dmg down to 225 in lvl 3, 300 is just too much.

edit

and yes MS, I agree with you, some of these are ridiculous in my opinion..

I would like to ask you, have you ever heard of burrows mike ?.. thats pretty much where ur harass ends.. and you play night lef and not undead WHICH MEANS U R IN A WAY BETTER SPOT THAN I AM. WHY ? BECAUSE IF UR WISPS GET KILLED TOO BAD U GET LESS LUMBER BUT I LOSE GOLD BECAUSE ACOLYTES GET KILLED. thats the difference.. have you even watched the replays we both posted ????

About dk i dont know maybe he is too powerful. it is really hard to see whats wrong with your race when u play it so i will leave that decision up to other players.

To the other guy who said lets change the whole thing (tinker to nuclear missiles and etc.)... LOOK IF YOU CANT UNDERSTAND WHEN SOMETHING is wrong doesnt mean other ppl cant also. We arent sking to remoive bm from game just to remove/nerf his windwalk. IF YOU WATCH MY REPLAY YOU WILL SEE THAT I CANT GET A SURRROUND ON HIM BECAUSE OF WINDWALK. so next time u decide to embarrass yourself by showing that you have no idea whats going on think again before posting.

sorry for spelling mistakes im in a hurry got to go to work.

 

[QuikSilver]

ok UD_player...With all this talk i would expect you are a very experienced player that is sick and tired of orc. But, no ur not. You didnt use dust of appearance once. And U stayed in your base for half of the game.
You might be right about the nerfing of the WW...but, it shouldnt be taken to that extent. You'll see, as you get better, and more experienced u'll probably forget about this WW thing because you are so used to countering it(But you still might find difficulty).
Im saying this because this has happened to me many times...

 

[UD_PLAYER]

...

... This is an old replay and i didnt have a more recent one even with dust and towers bm is unstopped. I might find a better replay but u should watch the one posted by revelade also. As for the matter of staying in base i had to in order to stop bm but w/e.

this occurred before i learned to counter bm ill go search 4 better replays. And i dont care if u think im a good player or not i know im right and thats all that matters. I suggest u watch other replays posted on www.wcreplays.net and others. If i was an excellent player i would be playing in championships

 

[Ntrik_]

I would like to ask you, have you ever heard of burrows mike ?.. thats pretty much where ur harass ends.. and you play night lef and not undead WHICH MEANS U R IN A WAY BETTER SPOT THAN I AM. WHY ? BECAUSE IF UR WISPS GET KILLED TOO BAD U GET LESS LUMBER BUT I LOSE GOLD BECAUSE ACOLYTES GET KILLED. thats the difference.. have you even watched the replays we both posted ????

About dk i dont know maybe he is too powerful. it is really hard to see whats wrong with your race when u play it so i will leave that decision up to other players.

To the other guy who said lets change the whole thing (tinker to nuclear missiles and etc.)... LOOK IF YOU CANT UNDERSTAND WHEN SOMETHING is wrong doesnt mean other ppl cant also. We arent sking to remoive bm from game just to remove/nerf his windwalk. IF YOU WATCH MY REPLAY YOU WILL SEE THAT I CANT GET A SURRROUND ON HIM BECAUSE OF WINDWALK. so next time u decide to embarrass yourself by showing that you have no idea whats going on think again before posting.

sorry for spelling mistakes im in a hurry got to go to work.

NE without wood = tiger without teeth. Thanks.

And as for DK, I was whining just like you guys do with BM, DK is so imba for me when Im NE soo

 

[ChrisH36]

And don't forget rushing, rushing without NE is also tiger without fangs (explained in your strategy guide).

Sadly, this move eliminates all forms of imbalance on the heroes or units that are more effective later on.

BM is easy pray when revealed and having arcane/nerubian towers is the easiest way to keep bm rushing under control.

 

[UD_PLAYER]

and i didnt buy dust cuase i prefer shades which are a far better investment

 

[ChrisH36]

You are not going to get shades like 2 minutes into the game . Dust 4tw. I just use it in deadlock or when I see Night Elves trying to cloak at night.

 

[UD_PLAYER]

...

right, however u forget one small importance: WIPS DONT CARRY WOOD BACK TO HALL. This is a great advantage because with correct building u can place wisps to mine lumber behind various buildings such as moon wells and bm wont be able to get to em (thankfully he cant pass trough buildings yet). Night elf players are also capable of moving their wisps to any location on the map to mine lumber thus hiding them. UR WELCOME

 

[ChrisH36]

Ummm are we talking about strategies and basics or are we talking about how right or wrong this guy is?

Here is how you deal with imba: You find a way to defeat the unit or hero effectively with minimal casaulties using strategy over brute force.

For that > imba. Now can we stop crying over the little things and aim for trying to stop them?

I am a hypocrite...

 

[UD_PLAYER]

we really did get off topic huh ? well my point is that bm should be nerfed thats my opinion. it takes too much to counter him (dust in beginning then later on shades), possibly losing workers and being contained in base. Orcs are fairly difficult to harass if they hace right building order becuase burrows will protect them so you really cant give them a taste of tehir own medicine (peons keep moving which makes the hard to kill, or worse hide in burrows).
he is the ultimate harassment hero
I hope ppl agree with me

 

[ChrisH36]

So, I usually have no problems countering Blademasters. If they do it too much, you get counter measures. If they do it not enough, you can tech easily. Besides BM was already hit with a nerf stick. The damage from Wind Walk was toned down.

 

[Ntrik_]

we really did get off topic huh ? well my point is that bm should be nerfed thats my opinion. it takes too much to counter him (dust in beginning then later on shades), possibly losing workers and being contained in base. Orcs are fairly difficult to harass if they hace right building order becuase burrows will protect them so you really cant give them a taste of tehir own medicine (peons keep moving which makes the hard to kill, or worse hide in burrows).
he is the ultimate harassment hero
I hope ppl agree with me

if you keep on getting them into burrow, then your mission is accomplished, peons arent working.

 

[UD_PLAYER]

...

you have to agree though that if the orc player is advanced he will kill at least 2 of your acolytes. Now lets jsut think about that. you have to buy dust for 50$, hopefully this will get him out of your base. now you have to buy 2 acolytes for 75$ each thats 150$. But wait a minute... the orc player wasnt new so he hits you at the worst time possible : while your town hall is in the middle of upgrading. NOW you have 3 acolytes mining gold and you can choose between waiting or canceling the upgrade. If you cancel you lose time, if you dont u lose money. thats 200$ of damage per 1 hit of bm on your undead base plus whatever damage you choose to recieve from the halls of the dead upgrade. He now also knows what units you were getting, what hero you have and your base layout. All of this for 75-150 mana depending on how many times he uses wind. In the late game if you want to prevent harras its a good idea to get at least 1 shade that will stay in base to make sure bm doesnt come in. thats another 75 gold worth of a loss.

ANYONE ELSE SEE A PROBLEM WITH THIS ?????????????

 

[Emperor Pan I]

you have to agree though that if the orc player is advanced he will kill at least 2 of your acolytes. Now lets jsut think about that. you have to buy dust for 50$, hopefully this will get him out of your base. now you have to buy 2 acolytes for 75$ each thats 150$. But wait a minute... the orc player wasnt new so he hits you at the worst time possible : while your town hall is in the middle of upgrading. NOW you have 3 acolytes mining gold and you can choose between waiting or canceling the upgrade. If you cancel you lose time, if you dont u lose money. thats 200$ of damage per 1 hit of bm on your undead base plus whatever damage you choose to recieve from the halls of the dead upgrade. He now also knows what units you were getting, what hero you have and your base layout. All of this for 75-150 mana depending on how many times he uses wind. In the late game if you want to prevent harras its a good idea to get at least 1 shade that will stay in base to make sure bm doesnt come in. thats another 75 gold worth of a loss.

I am an Undead Player. Since people like to ignore me. Basicly, the game is as ****ing balanced as you can get. I posted about why the game is balanced through imbalances and heroes.

I actualy think the BM rush is one of the most pathetic hero harasses. I play other races, and I really hate the BM. However, speaking from a pure UD point of view, the BM is laughable at best. He barely has enough mana, and with a Tomb or Relics, Dust of Appearance is always at hand, and one neubian tower makes the BM obsolete. Also if your not good enough to dance your Acolytes around, YOU SHOULDN'T BE COMPLAINING ABOUT BM CAUSE YOU SUCK.

If your so worried about the fact he knows what your getting, here is an Idea. Scout. Goos players scout, it takes only a few seconds, and only a ghoul to scout. As for the shade, you should get it even without a BM around. waste of 75 gold because of a shade? HA. Best scout in the game. You can even set it to follow the BM around the map. Learn some tactics.

 

[UD_PLAYER]

I am an Undead Player. Since people like to ignore me. Basicly, the game is as ****ing balanced as you can get. I posted about why the game is balanced through imbalances and heroes.

I actualy think the BM rush is one of the most pathetic hero harasses. I play other races, and I really hate the BM. However, speaking from a pure UD point of view, the BM is laughable at best. He barely has enough mana, and with a Tomb or Relics, Dust of Appearance is always at hand, and one neubian tower makes the BM obsolete. Also if your not good enough to dance your Acolytes around, YOU SHOULDN'T BE COMPLAINING ABOUT BM CAUSE YOU SUCK.

If your so worried about the fact he knows what your getting, here is an Idea. Scout. Goos players scout, it takes only a few seconds, and only a ghoul to scout. As for the shade, you should get it even without a BM around. waste of 75 gold because of a shade? HA. Best scout in the game. You can even set it to follow the BM around the map. Learn some tactics.

Right.. Dude Where do you live ? dust of appearance always at hand.. right so u suggest sitting at base with hero? cause last time i checked units cant use items and staying at base with hero can be fatal.

On the second point that "i suck".. Get a life, he doesnt have to harrass your base at lvl 1, bm can lvl up really fast : watch replay posted by revelade. Also i dont sit around looking at my goldmine the whole time (this concerns your point that i cant dance acolytes around goldmine) i usually use micro intensive strategies to kill creeps so i could lose the least troops i can.

About 75$ shade watse: i alwasy get shades and they are great scouts. ITS THAT 1 EXTRA SHADE THAT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN BASE THAT IM CONSIDERING A WASTE.
You obviously havent vs good orc players who mastered bm

and whats up with the skull and the song lyrics? they dont belong here especially with every post

 

[Ntrik_]

Right.. Dude Where do you live ? dust of appearance always at hand.. right so u suggest sitting at base with hero? cause last time i checked units cant use items and staying at base with hero can be fatal.

On the second point that "i suck".. Get a life, he doesnt have to harrass your base at lvl 1, bm can lvl up really fast : watch replay posted by revelade. Also i dont sit around looking at my goldmine the whole time (this concerns your point that i cant dance acolytes around goldmine) i usually use micro intensive strategies to kill creeps so i could lose the least troops i can.

About 75$ shade watse: i alwasy get shades and they are great scouts. ITS THAT 1 EXTRA SHADE THAT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN BASE THAT IM CONSIDERING A WASTE.
You obviously havent vs good orc players who mastered bm

and whats up with the skull and the song lyrics? they dont belong here especially with every post

they are his sigs lol

Either way, if BM's getting nerfed, so is DK.

 

[UD_PLAYER]

dk nerfing

as i mentioned it is hard to see imbalances for the race that you play.. if blizzard decides tonerf him maybe he is imba i dont know. gont nothing against that

i jsut want a fair fighting chance against all races

 

[None293823]

I agree on Blade master nerf...

What about that ? 3 grutns and FS lvl 2 vs 4 foots and AM . You can never kill a grunt unless you surround it TalKING ABOUT TIER 1 , First 5 mins , while if you have micro you wont lose a foot but FS spirits and BM can kill a running-away foot, you can kill a grunt only if he is trapped and cannot escape quickly

But to claim that Brilliance aura needs nerf OMG.... how about HU has scroll of mana in the Vault and dust of appearnce too so that GG BM ?

I made some wins in a row vs UD, orc, HU and NE. The UD told me that he could do nothing vs air, starting with DK ghouls LIch later dests when i have mass hawks and some gryphs and fe. How to beat that ? a lot of spiders , expand like i did... and no fight unless he has enough spiders, micro on 1st place.

Orc complained that air is imba, what about taurens and lust ? What do you think should be done vs this - air of course ? Well the standard is wolf riders and i may go knights, cuz noobs lose to rifles vs wolves but good players win with wolves vs rifles. Thus >> ok .

Elf ?? Warden has pretty good skills and you need scrolls cuz knives and at lvl 6 can own you. DH : we have seen a lot of replays over 20 in a row in wcreplays.com where the human always loses.

It's all in the brain, and skill .