If God is good, why is the world so bad?

Hiatei

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I'm just going to put it out there, but according to the scientific method, it's up to the person making the claim to back what they're saying before anyone else has to. Thus, someone like cheeze, would merely need to sit back and say to the religious that say he has no proof... "Prove God exists, to place the burden of disproving him on me".

The bible, although you might see it as "God's Works" is not solid enough evidence, nor by any means a usable resource in any debate.

So, you claim there's an all powerful man in the sky, who grants wishes and punishes people for all eternity after they die for breaking his rules?

Prove it.
 

concrete_sox

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also apparantly this man created this complex world with billions of creatures in 7 days
 

ChrisH36

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also apparantly this man created this complex world with billions of creatures in 7 days
It is possible if you have divine powers to do so. He actually did it in 6 days and rested on the 7th, which was the Sabbath day.

But as I said, I see the bible as a contextualist, not a literalist.

Hiatei said:
So, you claim there's an all powerful man in the sky, who grants wishes and punishes people for all eternity after they die for breaking his rules?
Honestly, that's the part that scares a lot of people in Religions. You do something bad, you are basically damned, unless you repent your sins. There are some people who take the religion so seriously, they would literally go confess each time they make a sin. Sure, all you would want is devotion, but you shouldnt have to go to the extreme and recieve offerings and/or followers from the people that worship you.

LC said:
and if god created us to experience love then why did he create depression and sadness and anxiety
As I have explained, it's like an evil - we created it ourselves.

It's like the story of Pandora's Box.
 

concrete_sox

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so god has to be the one who created love but of course we are the ones who created depression? what a shitload of fuck
 

Renzokuken

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Im some cases, its recommended. Like for instance, the story of Moses. It is true that Jewish people were slaved by Egypt, and they did liberate themselves through Moses aid. But there is no way a man can split a lake to allow the people to cross. Or how some biblical characters like Abraham are like 400 years old in the Bible.
I believe God parted the red sea, Moses was just the vessel. And i believe that back then, people did live for longer than we do now. It has numerical evidence, how can you take that contextually?


Because God has the answers, and we cant exactly call him up on the telephone and ask for his opinion. Not one person can be the "Voice of God", not even Pope Benedict
Oh i see what you're saying. Sorry, i took you the wrong way initially.

So, you claim there's an all powerful man in the sky, who grants wishes and punishes people for all eternity after they die for breaking his rules?

Prove it.
Why would i try to explain it to a person that doesn't want to hear it? Oh, and he doesn't punish you for breaking his rules, he just doesn't have you in his family come judgement day if you deny his free gift.
 

Hiatei

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Why would i try to explain it to a person that doesn't want to hear it? Oh, and he doesn't punish you for breaking his rules, he just doesn't have you in his family come judgement day if you deny his free gift.
Logical fallacy: Argumentum ad baculum
 

Tipsy

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I'm just going to put it out there, but according to the scientific method, it's up to the person making the claim to back what they're saying before anyone else has to. Thus, someone like cheeze, would merely need to sit back and say to the religious that say he has no proof... "Prove God exists, to place the burden of disproving him on me".

The bible, although you might see it as "God's Works" is not solid enough evidence, nor by any means a usable resource in any debate.

So, you claim there's an all powerful man in the sky, who grants wishes and punishes people for all eternity after they die for breaking his rules?

Prove it.
You do realize that Cheeze is the one making the claim, right?

god isnt real its just not possible for him to be made and for him to create the earth religeon is for looneys
Have some sort of proof that God does or does not exist? Last I checked there wasn't enough information to empirically answer that question.
Despite your claim to understand science, you have completely failed in your application of it (either that or your reading comprehension). The argument you have implied (something easily seen as you make it quite obvious by what you're saying and who you're responding to as the point you are after) is the one that must back itself up.

And you come in and say "The bible, although you might see it as "God's Works" is not solid enough evidence, nor by any means a usable resource in any debate." You do realize this thread is about different interpretations of the Bible, right? Assuming the Bible is false and God does not exist, you're basically going into an English class and refusing to discuss a MacBeth because it is fiction.

little-cheeze said:
if god created everything then he created time but it is impossible for actions which follow one another without reference to time so its logically impossible of a creator who exists outside of time so god couldnt of always existed
You do realize that Aristotle used that argument in favor of God, right (prime mover unmoved)? Put simpler, every result must have a cause - the very first result had no cause. Thus, it is a supernatural action. This means that, according to Aristotle, whatever made that happen is 'God', be it some random atom, a magical taco, or an omnipotent benevolent God.

little-cheeze said:
and if god created us to experience love then why did he create depression and sadness and anxiety
You just asked this; It depends on whether you value free will more than a world without evil. By the Christian view, free will is more important (since the whole religion is based on making choices and throughout the Bible it says we have free will, starting with being created in God's image in Genesis). You can value security over cognizance, however that's your personal opinion, not an inconsistency with God.

I believe God parted the red sea, Moses was just the vessel. And i believe that back then, people did live for longer than we do now. It has numerical evidence, how can you take that contextually?
The fact that the Hebrew language has letters that double as numbers. For example:

"...it is worth noting that the number 13...is the numerical value of the word ahava (love, Alef-Hei-Beit-Hei) and of echad (one, as in the daily prayer declaration, G-d is One!, Alef-Cheit-Dalet). Thirteen is the age of responsibility, when a boy becomes bar mitzvah. We call upon G-d's mercy by reciting his Thirteen Attributes of Mercy, found in Exodus 34:6-7. Rambam summed up Jewish beliefs in Thirteen Principles. "
Judaism 101: Hebrew Alphabet

Logical fallacy: Argumentum ad baculum
How is he threatening you in any way? He even goes out of his way to say "[God] doesn't punish you for breaking his rules." You can disagree with what he's saying (as I'd tweak it a bit, but I'm not arguing the point he is) but throwing fancy words at him doesn't make you right and it makes you look dumb to those who actually know what those fancy words mean.
 

Barney Stinson

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also apparantly this man created this complex world with billions of creatures in 7 days
Well, scientifically speaking if you believe in evolution you're wrong as it is impossible for the human eye to of evolved into what it was from nothing, so we've had to had something somewhere start us.


Personally, I think we're an experiment by some alien race that dropped a buncha mongoloids on our planets years back and has been watching our evolution since then.

Who created them? Who cares.


Edit; To answer the question posed in the title; The world is bad because 'God' gave us free choice. Without free choice the world wouldn't of been 'bad', however it would be nothing like it is now.
 

Jim Morrison

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Well, scientifically speaking if you believe in evolution you're wrong as it is impossible for the human eye to of evolved into what it was from nothing, so we've had to had something somewhere start us.


Personally, I think we're an experiment by some alien race that dropped a buncha mongoloids on our planets years back and has been watching our evolution since then.

Who created them? Who cares.


Edit; To answer the question posed in the title; The world is bad because 'God' gave us free choice. Without free choice the world wouldn't of been 'bad', however it would be nothing like it is now.
This isnt spore.
 

ChrisH36

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BARNABY JONES said:
Well, scientifically speaking if you believe in evolution you're wrong as it is impossible for the human eye to of evolved into what it was from nothing, so we've had to had something somewhere start us.


Personally, I think we're an experiment by some alien race that dropped a buncha mongoloids on our planets years back and has been watching our evolution since then.
It could be possible. But from what I am seeing, it sounds more like Scientology.
 

Emperor Pan I

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Well, scientifically speaking if you believe in evolution you're wrong as it is impossible for the human eye to of evolved into what it was from nothing, so we've had to had something somewhere start us.
No. I mean, yeah if anyone believed the human eye evolved from nothing.

Millions of years ago a new type of sensory form which detects subtle light variations would have meant these animals with early eyes had a massive advantage over those that didn't, and this would create a huge leap in variety of eyes to which would slowly get better as the animals improved.

The eye didn't pop up, nor did it pop up and stay. Every single animal with eyes have a wide variety of types and complexities of eyes. To say that the eye simply is to complex is wrong, as we can visibly see right now the variety of the eye, and if we studied it further could probably see changes of certain eye forms into more complex systems. Eyes have likely been changing and improving for 500 million years, and even then the human eye is so incredibly bad, prone to problems with vision.
 

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To answer the question posed in the title; The world is bad because 'God' gave us free choice. Without free choice the world wouldn't of been 'bad', however it would be nothing like it is now.
Always something that I have questioned. How do we know we have free will? How can we prove that even though we think we are doing what we want.. every piece of our lives aren't scripted?

And to that, how can you prove there is even anything else outside of you? You can't see what others see.. you can't prove anything exists.

Furthermore, if you truly believe that there is no possibility of some sort of afterlife... then why live in the first place. Soon enough every memory you have will be gone, it will be like you never lived at all. You wouldn't be able to remember anything... you'd expel into nothingness.

I don't know about everyone, but I personally wouldn't be able to make it without some level of faith. I don't support any religion because I can't believe that anyone here has the real answers and I wont let myself get caught into some tunnel vision. But I have faith and try to be a decent person.




Anyways here's some zombie smileys because they are awesome
:rocketwhore:
 

Barney Stinson

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No. I mean, yeah if anyone believed the human eye evolved from nothing.

Millions of years ago a new type of sensory form which detects subtle light variations would have meant these animals with early eyes had a massive advantage over those that didn't, and this would create a huge leap in variety of eyes to which would slowly get better as the animals improved.

The eye didn't pop up, nor did it pop up and stay. Every single animal with eyes have a wide variety of types and complexities of eyes. To say that the eye simply is to complex is wrong, as we can visibly see right now the variety of the eye, and if we studied it further could probably see changes of certain eye forms into more complex systems. Eyes have likely been changing and improving for 500 million years, and even then the human eye is so incredibly bad, prone to problems with vision.

Right, I understand what you're saying and all. But what I'm saying, is that the human eye had to of started from somewhere, non-evolving. I mean shit, when the Science channel has a whole hour long show on the human eye and how it formed and how it literally couldn't of just started to evolve from nothing, how it HAD to have a jumping on point to start the evolution, I'm more inclined to agree with them.


And I know this isn't Spore, but what makes my beliefs in humans and how we came to be (Science experiment from another race far more advanced than we can conceive) any more wrong than others (Some magical being that can't be seen heard felt or even about to be prove true just for shits and giggles decided to create everything, or there were a bunch of gasses that came from no where, who when in contact with each other created a huge exlposion and boom thats how we're here)?

Oh wait, it can't be.
 

ChrisH36

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BARNABY JONES said:
Right, I understand what you're saying and all. But what I'm saying, is that the human eye had to of started from somewhere, non-evolving. I mean shit, when the Science channel has a whole hour long show on the human eye and how it formed and how it literally couldn't of just started to evolve from nothing, how it HAD to have a jumping on point to start the evolution, I'm more inclined to agree with them.
Personally, I believe the eye was created out of evolution and cell division. But what I find creepy about it is - how did evolution actually know how to create one and ended up making one. And none of us can't go back in time to watch the first stages - which would give a more accurate version of what happened.

In the story of creation in both biblical and science, they are both going with a theory that relates to them.

The writer for Genesis believed God did it through divine powers. And the evolutionists believed that humans were created from evolution from lower, smaller life forms, and then into humans - through fossils.
 

Ashigaru

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Right, I understand what you're saying and all. But what I'm saying, is that the human eye had to of started from somewhere, non-evolving. I mean shit, when the Science channel has a whole hour long show on the human eye and how it formed and how it literally couldn't of just started to evolve from nothing, how it HAD to have a jumping on point to start the evolution, I'm more inclined to agree with them.
You fail to realize that eyes come in varying degrees of complexity. Some are very simple while others are very complex. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the very complex eyes could have evolved from the very simple ones.

Personally, I believe the eye was created out of evolution and cell division. But what I find creepy about it is - how did evolution actually know how to create one and ended up making one. And none of us can't go back in time to watch the first stages - which would give a more accurate version of what happened.
Since we have eyes and always have any other possibility will seem ridicules since we were obviously supposed to evolve eyes. For all we know some species on another planet has completely different sensory organs.
 

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burden of proof is a dumb argument when it comes to god. the existence of god is a completely unique argument that really has nothing to do with science
 

Coffindragger

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Why are we getting into the Theory of evolution in this thread?


Whether or not we evolved or was given from god himself is ones own beliefs and should not be forced upon by another


I believe the world isnt that bad, Its how One looks at it, and how you make it.


Personally from what i've seen, It's always the good people that die first, But they lived there life's to the fullest, and We should all try to do the same.
:let_it_all_out:


:rocketwhore::smashtard:
 

Jim Morrison

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its funny..

creation has to exist completely without science
evolution has to exist completely without the idea of something divine

ugh we're so stupid.
 

Coffindragger

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its funny..

creation has to exist completely without science
evolution has to exist completely without the idea of something divine

ugh we're so stupid.


Id have to agree with you on that one, Ignorance is bliss thow
:yinyang:
 
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