If God is good, why is the world so bad?

[Renzokuken]

Put together by a few friends of mine who led a Bible Study on this subject, so i take no credit. It's pretty awesome, i'm not sure if i can answer any questions or disagreements, but i'll definitely try if any are posed.

All Bible texts taken from the New King James version. Anytime you see a stand-alone question that isn't answered, it's one you ought to ask yourself, it's easy!

_____________________________________



If God is so good, why is the world so bad?


There is probably not a more pressing question to arise in human hearts concerning the character of God. The painful reality of sin and human suffering, when placed alongside the claim of the Bible that "God is love," imposes upon our minds a most serious dilemma. If God does really love us, why did He allow sin and suffering to come into our world? Why does He allow it to continue? Why does He allow men, women, and children to undergo so much pain and abuse? Why doesn't He just stop it all... if He does truly love us?


1. Does God's will always prevail?
Most assume that if God wanted to prevent some tragedy from occurring, He could. Therefore, whatever happens, He must have wanted it to happen for some good reason. This would mean that all things happen for a Divine purpose, or according to God's ultimate will, following a supposed Divine blueprint. Yet the Bible teaches that not everything happens according to God's will. Not everything is turning out the way He wants it to. Therefore, it is not true to say that all things happen for a Divine reason, for some events are not God's desire, or wish.

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

How many people does God want to save? All.
Will all people be eternally saved? No. Is God's will achieved in this? No.


2. Love demands freedom which makes rebellion possible
God made us for love. He can draw us into the experience of love. Yet love, by its very nature is something even an omnipotent (all-powerful) God can't make us experience. Love is spontaneous. The capacity for love, therefore, requires a certain degree of self-determining freedom to love or not to love.

Question: If you truly love someone, can you make/force them to love you?

If God were to annihilate sin and its consequences as soon as they took place what would be the result? Loss of freedom of choice.

God had two options when creating this universe;

1. He could create the potential for love, which would require freedom as a very real thing we would possess, where we are capable of love - free to do God's will or resist God's will.
2. Or a universe in which no one could ever sin, which means no one could ever suffer. But that kind of universe would make love impossible.

Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's;
But the earth He has given to the children of men.

Why is sin and suffering permitted, if God is love? Precisely because He is love. He could simply destroy everyone who is wicked with no effort to redeem. But what would that accomplish? Such a plan would include the destruction of us all.


3. Warfare
The tragedies and calamities we witness and/or experience are not acts of God, but rather acts of God's enemy - Satan.

... you became filled with violence within, and you sinned.

... you have become a horror, And shall be no more forever

God did not create Satan, he created Lucifer, a perfect angelic being, who chose to become Satan/the Devil (which means adversary). He is responsible for all the 'violence' and 'terror' in this world. God promises 'never shalt thou be anymore'.

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy...

...whom Satan has bound...

We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2013:36-39;&version=50;

The above one is long so i gave a link.

They have brought evil upon themselves

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

4. Suffering God
When tragedy strike, we can be assured that God is not the source, rather He is a co-sufferer with us. Also we can be assured that is some Divinely unpreventable tragedy does come our way, God has promised his abundant grace to get us through the and bring good out of the evil meant for us.
Because of the existence of freedom, God cannot promise that bad things will never happen to us, but He can promise that good will ultimately come out of Satan's intended evils.

...A man of sorrows...

...in all our afflictions He is afflicted

...God causes all things to work together for good...

...but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.

For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathise with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

5. Hope
Because God defeated Satan at the cross, we can be assured that God will once again ultimately drive out this fallen enemy. This will usher in an age of peace and joy without the existence of suffering.

... the ruler of this world will be cast out.

... there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain...

...affliction will not rise up a second time.

____________________________________________________

That's it. If you have time, have a read. It's pretty cool. I can't wait for Jesus to come again so he can take us to heaven so we can worship God forever and ride rhino's and cool stuff like that, haha.

 

[Lizardbreath]

Thank you for quoting a book that was written by people who hear voices in thier heads.

 

[concrete_sox]

god isnt real its just not possible for him to be made and for him to create the earth religeon is for looneys

 

[Renzokuken]

You guys are missing out. Your too cool attitude is pretty narrow-minded.

 

[concrete_sox]

ur christian beliefs are pretty narrow minded

 

[Renzokuken]

god isnt real its just not possible for him to be made and for him to create the earth religeon is for looneys

God wasn't made, he's always existed.

The other day, a close friend of mine (practically my sister that isn't my sister) was really really upset, and really bitter about the people she was upset about. I wanted to cheer her up, or at least try to. I knew i couldn't really say anything that'd make her feel better, so i decided to collect my thoughts and write something down - write her a letter. I wanted God's help cheering her up so i opened my Bible to a random page and asked God to show me a passage to help cheer my friend up. As soon as i finished praying, the wind blew about three or four pages over and the first thing i looked at was Psalm 55. The heading for Psalm 55 is 'Trust in God Concerning the Treachery of Friends'. And that is exactly what my friend was struggling with.

I wrote down a few key passages from the Psalm (It's pretty long) and told her to read the lot as well. I finished up the letter and gave it to her that night (She stormed off during the day with a friend of hers and they went for a looooong drive) and told her to read it when she had a Bible nearby. She told me today that she read it this morning and she said it is exactly what she's going through, it brought her to tears. God is good.

You can't call that coincidence. Ask and you shall receive. Praise God.

 

[CelestialBadger]

The usual christian definition of god though is that he's omnipotent thus able to do anything. So anything that happens does so because god allowed it to happen. He could have stopped it if he wanted to because he's all powerful, but he doesn't. He just allows bad shit to happen. I realize those first two quotes from the Bible point out that people have turned against the will of god, but the point is that if god had cared in the slightest they wouldn't have, and when it comes down to a tough decision like "should I let this guy murder a bunch of innocent people (for example) provided that he doesn't get to enter the kingdom of heaven" god cuts an awful lot of slack on human suffering. Which, of course, would contradict with the idea that he's all loving.

Anyway, I don't really care that much. I think if god exists, he probably has some master plan that you can't understand in your mortal life, and I bet it's a tough job having to watch people down here tearing shit up just because it benefits your plan in the end.

I wrote down a few key passages from the Psalm (It's pretty long) and told her to read the lot as well. I finished up the letter and gave it to her that night (She stormed off during the day with a friend of hers and they went for a looooong drive) and told her to read it when she had a Bible nearby. She told me today that she read it this morning and she said it is exactly what she's going through, it brought her to tears. God is good.

oh, and I agree with that to an extent. I think it's just as possible to find that kind of stuff outside of the bible though. I never really got a whole lot out of the bible when I was studying it. It was an interesting read. There's a lot of crazy shit in there. But I feel like I've become a lot more religious (for lack of a better word) since I stopped reading it. Next time your friend's depressed tell her to go lie down in a field and listen to the birds and watch clouds for a couple hours. You can probably find god there and you don't have read some dry boring bible verse (no offense).

 

[concrete_sox]

god had to be of been created at one staged saying hes been around for ever and ever and he created the earth thats just crazy and why did he create mars and jupitor and saturn

 

[Metal Gear Flash]

I tried to explain to some of my friends (who dont believe in God) something that might make them understand a little better, why i believe in God. Heres what I told them.

I know a man who thinks of God as his plan b. He doesn't wholeheartedly believe in God, but practices some religion just in case he does exist. I explained right away to my friends that setting God as your plan b isn't what your supposed to do, but if through this and practicing a little religion brings you closer to god....why not?

I think we can all agree that the things the bible preaches are generally good things by all people - dont steal, murder, lie, things of this sort. If by practicing this and living by God the quality of your life is improved...has no good come? If you cant accept God, then accept the lifestyle and become a better person.

 

[warsim]

i believe that there is a god, i don't know if its muslim, christian, jewish, or even greek god. But there has to be a purpose for the world. And even with science, it does not explain how the world was created. That theory is very unlikely. Nothing is official so you never know.

 

[Lizardbreath]

Religion is for the weak minded.

 

[AxL]

I think we can all agree that the things the bible preaches are generally good things by all people - dont steal, murder, lie, things of this sort. If by practicing this and living by God the quality of your life is improved...has no good come? If you cant accept God, then accept the lifestyle and become a better person.

I'm confused, are you saying that Christianity started the ideals of not murdering, stealing, lying, etc?

 

[Tipsy]

The usual christian definition of god though is that he's omnipotent thus able to do anything.

It's a common misconception - "Omnipotence: the power of God to effect whatever is not intrinsically impossible."

Intrinisically impossible:
"1. Any action on the part of God which would be out of harmony with His nature and attributes;
2. Any action that would simultaneously connote mutually repellent elements, e.g. a square circle, etc."

This has been is the definition omnipotence by the Catholic Church (since you use the world usual and it is by far the largest and oldest denomination of Christianity so either it must either be in the usual or there is no usual if it is that disputed). Also, this has been the definition since at least St. Augustine meaning that it has been the definition since at least 400 AD.

Thus it comes down to do you believe it is more important to you that you have the ability to control your own actions or to live in a world without evil since to have both is intrinsically impossible and beyond the realm of omnipotence. If you choose a world without evil, there are plenty of people that have believed that (Hobbes comes to mind), but it should be pointed out there is no irrationality or anything here, just a difference in preferences - meaning there is no 'this contradicts itself', just 'I disagree with the preferences expressed by your religious beliefs' ("I" being anyone saying that, not necessarily you since I have no idea what you think on that question).

god isnt real its just not possible for him to be made and for him to create the earth religeon is for looneys

Have some sort of proof that God does or does not exist? Last I checked there wasn't enough information to empirically answer that question.

I'm confused, are you saying that Christianity started the ideals of not murdering, stealing, lying, etc?

It's probably because you don't know about accepting God being split into two parts, works (actions) and faith (believing in God) - it's been disputed throughout history (works, faith, both?). Hence one of the reasons, according to many denominations, that "non-Christains" can go to heaven is because they actually are Christians because they accept God through their actions (works). Clear it up for you?

3. Warfare
The tragedies and calamities we witness and/or experience are not acts of God, but rather acts of God's enemy - Satan.

Why wouldn't humans be to blame? Isn't the choice to cause warfare a human choice because of free will?

 

[Renzokuken]

Why wouldn't humans be to blame? Isn't the choice to cause warfare a human choice because of free will?

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned

Sin entered the world through Satan, he deceived Adam & Eve. But the tragedies that were spoken about include things greater than just how we act towards one another. Think about natural disasters, things that are out of our hands. That's what i reckon.

It's probably because you don't know about accepting God being split into two parts, works (actions) and faith (believing in God) - it's been disputed throughout history (works, faith, both?). Hence one of the reasons, according to many denominations, that "non-Christains" can go to heaven is because they actually are Christians because they accept God through their actions (works). Clear it up for you?

It is only by faith that Christians can enter heaven.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Now that's not to say that you shouldn't do works;

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Faith comes first. With faith and the love of Jesus Christ, you will want to do works, which is a good thing. But remember that works alone will not get you into heaven.

But check this out;

...for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them

Not exactly about non-Christians going to heaven, but it's about being seen right in God's eyes. There's a passage somewhere that i can't remember that talks about those that do not know God but being seen right in God's eyes. I'll try and find it.

 

[concrete_sox]

all you are saying is that GOT ANY PROOF HE DOESN'T EXIST? thats gay

 

[Tipsy]

all you are saying is that GOT ANY PROOF HE DOESN'T EXIST? thats gay

Forgive me for thinking the scientific method is not overrated and that to make definitive claims as to whether or not God exists you have to have some form of evidence.

 

[Renzokuken]

Really?
James 2:24:
"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you"

I think i said it incorrectly. Faith and works go hand in hand. But it must start with faith, imo. A faith without works isn't really faith. Those kinda people are the ones who are Christians on the Sabbath and the rest of the week they're whatever the hell they want to be. A life of works without faith means you don't really know Jesus.

 

[concrete_sox]

so why did god make mars and venus and jupitor

 

[Tipsy]

I think i said it incorrectly. Faith and works go hand in hand.

Agree completely.

But it must start with faith, imo.

Where does it say this? What I have gotten from the quotes so far is that salvation is a gift from God and that humans cooperate with this gift through works and faith. Where does it say that faith has to come before works or that one is more important than the other?

Would you agree with the statement that living the word of Christ but no believing in God makes one know God (the summary of the Justin the Martyr excerpt)? If not, would you say that everyone who was alive before Jesus went to hell and everyone that lives/d in an area of the word where there is no knowledge of Christianity goes to hell? And where in the Bible would you support this claim with?

so why did god make mars and venus and jupitor

From my religion's standpoint, the Catholic Church states that it has no jurisdiction outside the realm of salvation - why venus and jupiter were created aren't important to salvation, thus the Church's response would be believe whatever you want as long as it doesn't contradict some other Church teaching (similar, for example, to their teaching on creation).

 

[Emperor Pan I]

The world isn't bad. We live in the best time in the history of the human race, and it is slowly getting better. God doesn't have to do anything for us, we can take care of our selves and that is what freedom he gave us.