How do you own 24 carriers?

[NeoDarkness]

Ph33r teh hydras!

do all those strategies. theyr good.

i just masshydras against em and i usually win(maybe cuz im that good?) its easy.

 

[Ubuu]

It depends on how you mass them. If you let them die 1 by 1....

 

[Phoenix2003]

mass hydras? OMG, we've been through this already.

 

[Ubuu]

Originally posted by Phoenix2003
mass hydras? OMG, we've been through this already.

Lol, this thread is gonna get really big.

 

[Wing Zero]

meh i just plauge them and then dark swarm my hyrdas

 

[Ubuu]

Combo of Zealot and carrier will own your hydras, lol. The darkswarm will give the zealots advantages when it gets under it, and the carriers will be for distraction.

 

[Wing Zero]

er + Ultras? i dont know lol. yea that will get me

 

[Phoenix2003]

Dark templars or high templars will kill your hydras under the swarm. DS doesn't cover a large area so it is unlikely that you can get ultras under there also. But then again, I rarely use cars against the zerg.

 

[Neu(t)ral Damage]

for terran:
lock down the arbiter, reveals cloaked units
a couple yomato shots can take one carrier

for zerg:
SCOURGE BABY SCOURGE SCOURGE AND MORE SCOURGE
they dont call em "carrier killers" for nothin

 

[ReiGn]

Terran: Lockdown and Nuke. 50 Goliaths own 24 carriers.

Zerg: Plauge, Ensare and Devos. DS and mass hydras work well against carriers.

 

[Phoenix2003]

Originally posted by ReiGn
Terran: Lockdown and Nuke. 50 Goliaths own 24 carriers.

Zerg: Plauge, Ensare and Devos. DS and mass hydras work well against carriers.

How many times do you have to be told that lockdown, goliaths, mass hydras and dark swarm doesn't work?

You're either a troll or incredibly stupid.
Let me break it down to you(for the thousandth time).
Granted the others do work, but the ones I listed don't.

Goliaths: This only works if he's not paying attention. Carriers outmaneuver goliaths. I've done this(and seen this time and time again). I for one have never lost to goliaths.(even as a newbie)
Rule: goliaths can't counter cars if they can't catch them.

Lockdown: Unless you have godly micro, this will NEVER work.

Mass hydras: They first have to get within range. GOOD LUCK. Then there's impassable terrain.

Dark Swarm: Go ahead, I'll just pull my carriers back then kill your hydras under the swarm. There's reason why DS is strictly anti-terran.


Terrans, generally, suck at killing carriers(unless he's a completely newbie or just not paying attention and being careless)

Zerg, OK.

 

[Caiman]

I just use ghosts... Upgraded ghosts have enough energy to cloak, lockdown 2 things, and remain cloaked for an additional 25 whatevers.
So with 12 ghost, all of the carriers can be locked down, at which point anything that I have handy (usually goliaths) can come in and wreck stuff.

Lockdown is undodgable, and i keep my ghosts in bunckers, so you would only be able to attack for maybe 5 secs before most of them are locked down.

so um... why wouldn't this situation of lockdown word? And why would it require godly microing?

I'm a troll yay for me

 

[YeoKeh]

Darkswarm your units and building this makes it so cariers to not hit you , second

plague them carriers then with zerg take 3 scourages takes down 1 shipand kill them second take an overlords you do not use and make it a distraction and then plague agian about 15 hydras and that will be all

 

[Ubuu]

And what would darkswarming your buildings achieve you? One time, i had mass gaurdians and some guy darkswarm his building including spores. And geuss who wonned?

 

[Phoenix2003]

Let me break it down to you why lockdown doesn't work.

1. Nobody goes ghost for the sole purpose of countering carriers.
2. Terran doesn't even know(for certain) that toss is going carrs.(good players hide their stargates/fleet beacon)
3. If he doesn't go carrs, then that's gas wasted.(not to mention time)
4. Toss will now own you on the ground because your lack of tanks.(gas spent on ghosts)
5. Do you know how long it takes to tech to ghosts and research all of their abilites? By then, you would've already been attacked.
6. By the time he attacks with carriers, it would have been too late to respond using ghosts.

Lockdown is pure THEORYCRAFT. Something I don't want to delve into.

You need godly micro because I don't see how he's paying attention and you're still able to lockdown all of his carriers. Again, theorycraft. Remember, lockdown isn't auto-cast so you'll definitely lose your ghosts in a heartbeat if you don't have ubergosu micro.

As for dark swarm, again, go ahead, I'll just pull my carriers back then kill your hydras under the swarm with zeals, dark temps, or high temps.


Bottom line: Terran can "KNOW" how to beat carriers all they like. It still won't help you against a skilled player.

 

[Ubuu]

Yes, Phoenix. You are so right. No one gets ghost + lockdown till they see BC or carrier. But then again, there is map hack. Watch this replay and you'll see how the other player counters cruisers.

 

[Phoenix2003]

Map hacking? Just to beat carriers? I'm flattered. BTW, I keep getting an error message each time I download the replay. My computer has issues.

To add to this, yeah, I can tell this is a tvt matchup. Ghosts are required here because of BCs are almost always used in this case. BCs aren't particulary good, but they're NEEDED to break through a wall(particularly tanks). You can't exactly tank push into a terran base because of defending tanks. Sometimes ghosts are used as an alternative to BCs.(can't say I blame them)

 

[Skyhr]

Firstly, I think Terrans can counter Carriers, unless of course the terran player 'not paying attention' for some odd reason.

Secondly, 'good' Terran players can kill carriers with mass goliaths just as 'good' Protoss players can kill vice versa. I've seen both ways, even when good micromanagement is done. Goliath and Carriers both have attack range 8...

Thirdly, 'godly micro' is not as hard as it sounds... for lockdown (in case terran player got it for nuking, or locking down other units, but didn't know about carriers, which happens) just select all the ghosts, if you see the carriers that's good, if not, find them and scan. During this small moment, with your left ring, press L for lockdown. Target, hold shift, click on a ghost so that only 11 are selected. Release, L, another target. Repeat.. If the ghosts are far away, and the scan goes away, the ghosts will still lock them down simultaneously...(Hope you understood this)

Phoenix, no offense but, I think you're underestimating goliaths, I mean they have the same range as carriers, have fast cool attack rate(imo), and can be massed quickly(assuming terran player is good). When goliaths are battling carriers, terran player can make more reinforcements while attacking protoss base using his left over tanks (more than 10). And by massing goliaths, I do not mean 8... lol... more like 16+ when first fighting, plus reinforcements later... goliaths take roughly 1/3 time to be built than a carrier, and is much cheaper... over accumulated time, over 30 goliaths can be made while carriers may be killing the first wave of goliaths, but are taking damage at the same time...

As for 'theorycraft' I've seen replays where all these were done... but both players were really good... perhaps you aren't playing the right people...? or haven't found a good enough terran player who can counter carriers microed by a good player yet...? Probably not me though(yet.......) And by using the term 'theorycraft' I think you're discouraging people from experimenting or trying these counter/ideas... lol

I do, however, support your notion that SVs are practially useless against carriers, since 150 shield isnt' that much of a big deal anyway...

If you have some replays to support your ideas, I would love to watch them... especially replays with you included...

I know this is zerg counter...but i have no idea... i think multiple dark swarm is a good idea, with hydras... since both defilers (with consume) and hydras are cheap...

I am sorry if I've went off on a tangent here people...lol

 

[Ubuu]

Darkswarm and hydras will only scare them away. I don't think it will own anything unless they get close enough to you.

 

[Phoenix2003]

Goliaths don't always work because if toss is paying attention, he most definitely use terrain at which case only a few gollies can reach carriers at that given time. Water, cliffs, or otherwise impassable terrain will seriously deter goliaths ability to counter carriers. As far as lockdown is concerned, what if toss used stasis on his lockdown carriers. That whole lockdown strategy would then be useless. You need incredible micro to lockdown to properly counter carriers or you'll lose your ghosts fast. And if read my post on why lockdown is theorycraft I don't see why I'm repeating myself on this. Visit Battle.net board and they'll tell you the same. It's different if you can clone lockdown, but otherwise a waste of time. Maybe you need to stop playing money maps before you start thinking certain strats are good. The number one reason why money maps are frowned upon.


In addition to this. There's a reason why carriers are used vs terran as opposed to the other races even at pro level. Even Nada loses to these. Don't let the fact that your a terran player cloud your judgement. You can KNOW how to beat carriers all you like and still lose to them. Boxer loses to carriers, too, BTW. All toss has to do is micro and let the carrier's speed and support units take care of the rest. If you think the finger of god is easily countered because carriers are in that combo, then you're not too smart.