Homosexuality

KCspdracer

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I do believe homosexuality is wrong. But I dont hate people because they are one. What 2 people do behind closed doors is none of my business. As for gay marriage. What difference does it make if states recognize it or not? Why should it matter to them?

Most Americans are against it, they need to learn to live with that. If not, well there's Denmark and a few other European countries you can move to.
 

t.A.T.u97

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Most Americans are against it, they need to learn to live with that. If not, well there's Denmark and a few other European countries you can move to.
But why? I see it as so many Americans are brainwashed into thinking its wrong. Its the christianity, its them just brainwashing people who believe they are christian. Its such a common thing. I just don't understand why people hate or are against something that is unpreventable. It's like being born black or a different race, its something you can't prevent so why do people hate it? It blows my mind how its hated like this, yet it's like an ethnicity almost.
 
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Laharl

Look @ it this way. The fact that we deny people same sex marriages is discriminatory, and thus should be struck down. Also, the argument that marriage is protected because it is used for "Pro-creation" is bullshit. What are the perameters to be set if we don't pr-create the species? What if the couple doesn't want kids whatsoever? Than should they be denied a marriage liscense?
Also what if a person is incapable of procreating? Should they be denied a license because marriage is for procreation? Well, they aren't. The only reason why homosexuals in general can be picked on by the church, or government, is because we ARE the minority.

That's why leviticus explictly 'picks on' homosexuals. We're an easy target. Same with the catholic church for hundreds and hundreds of years. The nazis in the past hundred years did it, too? Why? Because people will always pick on the little guy, the little group. It's easier to do, and nobody will kick up a fuss.
 

Tipsy

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Its such a common thing. I just don't understand why people hate or are against something that is unpreventable. It's like being born black or a different race, its something you can't prevent so why do people hate it? It blows my mind how its hated like this, yet it's like an ethnicity almost.
You do realize that stopping the unpreventable is basically a central concept in Christainity don't you? The entire concept of sin, coming from original sin, means that we are going to have urges to sin, whether it be stealing, murder, having sex with someone of the same sex, or having urges to have sex before marriage. Sin is unpreventable in human beings according to Christain doctrine. But your logic you seem to be suggesting that they should approve of sin because it is unpreventable.

(Keep in mind people are 'hating the sin, not the sinner' - hating the homosexuality not the homosexual.)

The only reason why homosexuals in general can be picked on by the church, or government, is because we ARE the minority.

That's why leviticus explictly 'picks on' homosexuals. We're an easy target. Same with the catholic church for hundreds and hundreds of years.
You do realize that the Catholic Church 'picked on' homosexuals for their practices when they were the little guys and homosexuality was more widely accepted than their teachings Implying that they only pick on you because you are the little guy is completely false. They've 'picked on' homosexuals throughout history regardless of who was more accepted, their teachings or homosexuality.
 
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Laharl

Tipsy, what just being - let alone a god - would allow anyone to be punished for somethign that somebody else did? So "God" is allowing us to be "punished" for something that "Adam & Eve" did centuries ago? Cute.
 

Tipsy

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Tipsy, what just being - let alone a god - would allow anyone to be punished for somethign that somebody else did? So "God" is allowing us to be "punished" for something that "Adam & Eve" did centuries ago? Cute.
You inherit original sin in the same fashion as you inherit your genes from your parents. The only difference is that your ancestors chose to do something that gave them this bad quality. I'll go with the gene example. It would be as if your parents chose to do something that gave them a genetic disease that can be passed down to their children. Are we being punished? It is nothing more than a cause and effect of our free will. The story of Adam and Eve demonstrates that someone at sometime added the experience of evil to humanity and it is whoever that is that makes us have original sin.

Note: I'm not implying there is an original sin gene or some physical cause like that. What it effects goes into the topic of different types of 'graces'.
 

micro.micro

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relavance to homosexuality?? searching.... searching...... tangent found. i read this page and the previous and this just seems to be a ... dare i say religious argument more than a factual based one so i don't think it's going to go anywhere anyway i'd like a update as to how this came up anyway if anyone would be so kind. :)
 

mdawgmike

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Personally, I find homosexuality to be perfectly acceptable. I am not gay myself. I do have one gay friend, but that friend isn't that close to me.

I base my opinion on the idea that they aren't harming anything by being gay. The only possible consequence is the spread of STD's (because of the type of sex that is practiced), but if they are educated enough they know to use protection.

For the religious argument. We (The United States atleast) AREN'T a theocracy, christian democracy, etc. (although many in this country would like to change that I'm sure). We are simply a democracy. In that the government should neither sponsor nor prohibit any religion. See the first amendment.

On the topic of marriage. Although we need to respect homosexual rights, marriage is defined as a bond between a man and a women. We should never change that, however what what should be administered is the opportunity for a legal bond between homosexual couples (allready exists several places I'm pretty sure). Essentially this would be like the "separate but equal" doctrine, whereas homosexuals could enjoy ALL the same legal benefits as heterosexual couples but it would simply be givin a different title.

On the topic of adoption. I'm kinda iffy on this one. At this moment in time homosexuals probably shouldn't be allowed to adopt, simply because of all the anti-gays/homophobes out there. The child in many cases would be riduculed beyond belief by their peers (as much as I hate to say this). Eventually, as a whole, our society will be accepting of homosexuality. Until then though, homosexual adoption would be too much of a culture shock to the religious right in this country.

On the topic of reproduction. Come on, who cares if they can't have kids. The world is overpopulated enough already. The bible may say to "be fruitful and multiply" It mean't well, but keep in mind it was written in a time when you'd be lucky to get 2 of your 10 kids to survive through infancy. Now that infant/childhood deaths are relatively out of the picture, you don't need to have 5+ kids to keep the human population going. Better yet, couples not having any kids is GOOD for our world. It compensates for the many who treat the above as a written law.

Basically I feel the same way about this issue as I feel about most religious-type issues. You may believe something, but that doesn't mean everyone believes it. Why should we discriminate against something or someone that isn't harming anyone or anything? That's one question that always seems to go unanswered.
 

teatea

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root said:
Tipsy, what just being - let alone a god - would allow anyone to be punished for somethign that somebody else did? So "God" is allowing us to be "punished" for something that "Adam & Eve" did centuries ago? Cute.
It seems that homosexuality is a religious affair but why are many people against it? How does religion affect anything really... If GOD created the world and Adam and Eve, then wouldn't god created gay people? In my sake, please don't let any topic be a religious conversation.

I say people should respect how the mind works. If gay people want to bang each other, then let it be. It is their choice, not the president of the USA, not the governments. You can't really change how the mind works when you are dealing with gay emotion.

I don't know why people like those governments and other bueracraps even bothering hindering other people's lives with stupid laws. Let people be who they want to be and please don't let any of them turn on me...
 

Tipsy

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It seems that homosexuality is a religious affair but why are many people against it? How does religion affect anything really... If GOD created the world and Adam and Eve, then wouldn't god created gay people? In my sake, please don't let any topic be a religious conversation.
If we go with the idea that God created everything and Christian theology, it was talked about a few posts ago:

"You do realize that stopping the unpreventable is basically a central concept in Christianity don't you? The entire concept of sin, coming from original sin, means that we are going to have urges to sin, whether it be stealing, murder, having sex with someone of the same sex, or having urges to have sex before marriage. Sin is unpreventable in human beings according to Christian doctrine. But your logic you seem to be suggesting that they should approve of sin because it is unpreventable."

I say people should respect how the mind works. If gay people want to bang each other, then let it be. It is their choice, not the president of the USA, not the governments. You can't really change how the mind works when you are dealing with gay emotion.

I don't know why people like those governments and other bueracraps even bothering hindering other people's lives with stupid laws. Let people be who they want to be and please don't let any of them turn on me...
The government is not trying to stop people from being homosexual and 'banging each other', they are trying to prevent a government institution from being enlarged. Civil marriage involves monetary benefits that comes from our tax dollars.

relavance to homosexuality?? searching.... searching...... tangent found. i read this page and the previous and this just seems to be a ... dare i say religious argument more than a factual based one so i don't think it's going to go anywhere anyway i'd like a update as to how this came up anyway if anyone would be so kind. :)
If you want my argument against same sex marriage that leaves all religion out, you may see it here: http://battleforums.com/showpost.php?p=1326930&postcount=153

On the topic of adoption. I'm kinda iffy on this one. At this moment in time homosexuals probably shouldn't be allowed to adopt, simply because of all the anti-gays/homophobes out there. The child in many cases would be riduculed beyond belief by their peers (as much as I hate to say this). Eventually, as a whole, our society will be accepting of homosexuality. Until then though, homosexual adoption would be too much of a culture shock to the religious right in this country.
How exactly is them being ridiculed a good reason to discriminate? The government isn't there to take care of our emotions.
 

Jimbo

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I'm gay, I think I just lost my ability to love... This cant be good.
 

Tipsy

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I'm gay, I think I just lost my ability to love... This cant be good.
If you're trying to make the point that if people love each other then they should be able to marry, then you must remember that this is a secular government sponsored civil marriage. This means that it is basically nothing more than an economic union - it does not deal with love.
 

Jimbo

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If you're trying to make the point that if people love each other then they should be able to marry, then you must remember that this is a secular government sponsored civil marriage. This means that it is basically nothing more than an economic union - it does not deal with love.

Yeah. But not many people know that. I was just showing how stupid some peoples logic can be.
 
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