Are Smiters Better Than Chargers???

[aphextwin]

i thought charge is more for pvp and smiters are more for ubers

 

[Oprah]

no my smiter owns all the charge i face

 

[Carbon]

my barb will own either

 

[AZN_FLEA]

smiters are basically the best PvP char. the only char that can compare with it is a sorc that is EXTREMELY ****ING SKILLED. unless you are skilled enough to dodge the initial charge of a smiter your stuffed. no melee char can take on a smiter unless a barb berzerker kills him before the smiter can

 

[leeder-ofmen]

would a grief pb or zerk be better for a smiter?

 

[ArcaneLegend]

the fort DOES NOT ADD THE ED TO SMITE ATTACK.

...And again, I'm telling you that it does. Here are the detailed test results:

Thanks to the ladder reroll, quite a few rumors have popped up regarding the function of Fortitude and Grief on Smite. I have already explained how it works with a normal attack, so now it is time to destroy the much more prevalent rumors regarding Smite.

Part I: Fortitude
There is a rumor flying around that ED% from outside the weapon doesn't affect Smite. This stems from the fact that no difference shows up on the damage screen when something like Fortitude is equipped on a Smite-based character. This turned out to be a fairly easy test to prove.

Since my V/T is built to use Enigma, he was unable to equip Fortitude. Because of this, I had to use my Zealot, Stoutwood for this test. Stout, with 1 hard point in Smite and a comparatively low level Fanaticism, required a +399 Grief to boost his damage so that a difference would be recognizable. I removed all items that could skew the results, such as items with Crushing Blow and Open Wounds. The-Professor was unavailable for this test, so I enlisted the aid of my friend Oakenshaft, or Mr. J as he is known on these forums.

Mr. J removed all +life replenish gear from his character, and also made sure to get 50% DR for the ease of calculations. I then proceeded to Smite him 5 times with the Fortitude equipped, and 5 times without. We subtracted his remaining life after getting Smited from his life beforehand to get the total damage applied.

Displayed Smite Damage: 1236-1314 (with a +399 Grief Phase Blade equipped)
Damage Done to Mr. J Without Fortitude:
Trial 1: 2006 - 1523 = 483 Damage
Trial 2: 2006 - 1521 = 485 Damage
Trial 3: 2006 - 1530 = 476 Damage
Trial 4: 2006 - 1530 = 476 Damage
Trial 5: 2006 - 1529 = 477 Damage

Damage Done to Mr. J With Fortitude:
Trial 1: 2006 - 1387 = 619 Damage
Trial 2: 2006 - 1389 = 617 Damage
Trial 3: 2006 - 1386 = 620 Damage
Trial 4: 2006 - 1387 = 619 Damage
Trial 5: 2006 - 1387 = 619 Damage

Conclusion: Obviously the 300% ED from Fortitude adds into the Damage equation, regardless of whether or not it appears on the character screen.

Part II: Grief

There are basically two theories as to how Grief works with Smite. Theory 1 states that the displayed damage goes through the PvP Penalties and Damage Reduction, and the +Damage from Grief is applied aftarwards straight up with no reduction. Theory 2 states that the +Damage from Grief is added to both the maximum and minimum damage of the shield, where it is then multiplied by ED from Strength, Smite, Fanaticism, and ED from non-weapon items.

This test was done in a similar manner to the Zealot Grief Test. All items that could skew results were removed. 5 Trials were performed with the Grief equipped. This part was done with my V/T, so the damage was equal to that put out by any other Smite-based build.

Displayed Damage: 2750-2793
Actual Damage Applied to Mr. J if Theory 1 holds: (((2750-2793)*(1/6 + 1/2)) + 398-398) = 627 - 630 Damage
Actual Damage Applied to Mr. J if Theory 2 holds : (((589-592)*(13.4+1))*(1/6 + 1/2) = 706 - 710 Damage

Trial 1: 2006 - 1283 = 723 Damage
Trial 2: 2006 - 1282 = 724 Damage
Trial 3: 2006 - 1284 = 722 Damage
Trial 4: 2006 - 1283 = 723 Damage
Trial 5: 2006 - 1284 = 722 Damage

The odd thing about this test was that while it was very close to the anticipated results of Theory 2, it was consistently above the maximum expected value. This worried me, so I did a control test without equipping the Grief. The displayed Damage was the same, so the actual damage applied to Mr. J would be 229-232.

Trial 1: 2006 - 1769 = 237 Damage
Trial 2: 2006 - 1769 = 237 Damage
Trial 3: 2006 - 1769 = 237 Damage
Trial 4: 2006 - 1771 = 235 Damage
Trial 5: 2006 - 1769 = 237 Damage

These results also came out consistently higher than the maximum expected value, so whatever the problem with the equation was, it wasn't the Grief. I quadruple-checked my V/T to see if any other items could have possibly boosted the damage, but I didn't find anything. I also went over Mr. J's gear. He was wearing a Stormshield, Ethereal Upgraded Shaftstop, and a 12% DR CoA.

This leaves two possibilities: Either Smite has an odd quirk that boosts it's damage slightly higher than the displayed value, or Ethereal Upgraded Shaftstop has a bug that prevents the 30% DR mod from functioning. This however, is a topic that should be dealt with in another thread. At any rate, it is reasonable to say that the +Damage modifier on Grief adds directly to the shield damage and is susceptible to PvP penalties and Damage Reduction.

EDIT: Further tests have shown that Ethereal Upgraded Shaftstop works fine. There has been the suggestion by several people that the offset is due to the PvP penalty being slightly lower than 1/6.

 

[AZN_FLEA]

id say they are. charge takes too much mana to cast regularly.

 

[MasterRiven]

smiters are basically the best PvP char. the only char that can compare with it is a sorc that is EXTREMELY ****ING SKILLED. unless you are skilled enough to dodge the initial charge of a smiter your stuffed. no melee char can take on a smiter unless a barb berzerker kills him before the smiter can

I beg to differ...My FoH'er (yes, i know, its nubbish...) kills most smiters in 2 shots, while he stands there indiferently as they try first to charge, which is blocked/misses as the first foh is cast, and then the 2 step out of smites range (walking, mind you) as the second foh comes down to finish the job.

 

[ArcaneLegend]

smiters are basically the best PvP char. the only char that can compare with it is a sorc that is EXTREMELY ****ING SKILLED. unless you are skilled enough to dodge the initial charge of a smiter your stuffed. no melee char can take on a smiter unless a barb berzerker kills him before the smiter can

Far from the best...

I beg to differ...My FoH'er (yes, i know, its nubbish...) kills most smiters in 2 shots, while he stands there indiferently as they try first to charge, which is blocked/misses as the first foh is cast, and then the 2 step out of smites range (walking, mind you) as the second foh comes down to finish the job.

They had crap resists. End of story.

 

[Guest]

I beg to differ...My FoH'er (yes, i know, its nubbish...) kills most smiters in 2 shots, while he stands there indiferently as they try first to charge, which is blocked/misses as the first foh is cast, and then the 2 step out of smites range (walking, mind you) as the second foh comes down to finish the job.

Uhh...my smiter (not even finished) killed three of the top five foh'ers on east....#'s 1,3 and 4......so he musta sucked :-/.

 

[Hamtaro]

Nonsense all of you, I am ashamed to know you....
Duress, CB and DS for smiters and Charge pallies are Fort or Coh
Shame on you all!
http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords-110.shtml




-Flamingice

 

[D6E6A6D]

I am making teh 1337 meleemancer/poison he will kill teh ubarest smiters!

 

[minny]

Holy shit.. down with the flamer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[R0naldinh0]

I rock peas on my head but don’t call me a pea head.
Beas on my head but don’t call me a bee head.
Bruce Lee’s on my head but don’t call me a Lee head.
Now please excuse me, I gots to get my tree fed.
You wear name brands and I make my own clothing.
I hang out with an apple who loves self-loathing.
“I hate myself.”

Pancake on my face makes me extra happy.
I like shampoo bottles that sit on my lappy.
Cause it’s my show you can’t tell me what to do.
When life hands me lemons I make beef stew.

So yo I gotta go, it’s time for me to rock it.
I put baloney in my left pocket.
Smear some cream cheese in my gold locket .
Cause it’s my show I’m Andy Milonakis.
It’s my show I’m Shmandy Shmila-Shmakis.
It’s my show I’m Andy Milonakis.

 

[minny]

^^ OMFG LMAO

 

[phr0zenknight]

meh smiters areant the best pvp at all....my barb can own most smiters grief + doom owns the smiters
not only can my barb own them but most elemental characters can pwn smiters with no difficulty
and btw AznAvatar conviction kills opponents resistance

 

[ArcaneLegend]

meh smiters areant the best pvp at all....my barb can own most smiters grief + doom owns the smiters
not only can my barb own them but most elemental characters can pwn smiters with no difficulty
and btw AznAvatar conviction kills opponents resistance

My bad. I forgot that pretty much nobody carries stacked resistances on their main setup these days. My current character will be completed in a few weeks. Let's see how many elemental characters can take me out then.

 

[TopGun]

Well in my opinion this is best gear....

Helm: Ber'd Kiras Tiara 60% or better U need resistences
Armor: CoH U need resistences
Ammy: Maras 25% or better U need resistences
Weapon: Greif, But right now i use Asterons, and i pwn most of the time.
Sheild: E Exile Vortex-Try for a resistences one, but if not the dmg one is fine
Rings: Bk
Boots: Gores
Gloves: Dracs
Belt: Dungos
Switch: Cta Lidless, or spirit
OR if u want Put a point into Conv. and use ebotdz/hoz and charge them then switch to smite, thats what i do sometimes.


WIth that you could get farely good resistences in hell, and havea decent amount of dmg. My smiter pwns in most cases, but since i dont have grief, and im not done with it, i do lose soem of the time.
And like some one said before, Asterons Is WAAY overlooked, it adds dmg like grief does, just not as much.

 

[ThangDon]

no duh

any damage and/or %ed other than the shield adds damage to smite.. that means, ur armor, sword, gloves, belt, helm, etc excluding shield adds damage to smite damage... if u lyk, just get a bunch of 250+ poison damage charms.. that pwns... my lvl 75 smiter can kill must pvps and pvm..

 

[PANDA]

Build A FoH'er