1.17 I think nears and I believe this will be a great patch.

[Emperor Pan I]

Originally posted by NeverGoingBack
ok u say u cant focus fire with spiders. Thast BS. they are ranged they can stand behind each other and still target an enemy, they cant ff good? that was lame statement any unit or hero falls quily to fiend FF. and have u seen what spiders+nova does to air such as hipps wyvs.

riflemen have an attack cooldown of 1.5 and range of 60. archers have an attack cooldown of 1.5 and 70 range
fiends have an attack cooldown of 2 and a range of 55.
Here is an idea, keep your units further away from fiedns, because fiends range does not allow the ones in behind to attack unless ur units are clos. You don't play undead, u see and undead palyer you don't like fiends and you assume. I have has my experience with fiends and they are horribly slow and weak.

hunts are far from overpowered. they are costly and die extremely fast vs any base defense. you should stop using this unit as quily as possible, its only good for early creeping and defense.

If you actualy read what I said Hunts are overpwoered at tier 1, stomping everysingle tier 1 unit at a lower cost.
Hunts cost 195 gold. the beat grunts which cost 200, they still ebat fiends that cost 215, they still beat rifles which cost 205.
You cant fight them with footies or ghouls because the poor 120 gold units are so weak compared to the 600 hp ranged 320 speed unit.

chims overpowered? to bad the most youll ever see in solo game is like 2.

Ever palyed a ffa game? ever played the m regularly. play agaisnt a ne. then you can come back and talk about balance.

orcs dont die to air as ez as you think. an orc ground army can take mass chippo, and mass gargs and wyrms. they might be slightly disadvataged to early air, but there base defense and ground strength make up for it plenty, and thats not even counting bats and wyvs. Try HH with caster and fs, tc, and sh tri hero. adding tauren later... it owns everything, and anything.

mass chippos? new unit?

You have it wrong, they are at a disadvantage to late heavy air. they counter light air (gargs, Dhawks, hippo,hipporiders) but they are to weak late agaisnt chims, wyrms, gryphons and destroyers.
Bat riders=gg light air.

If I can get wyrms out against an orc palyer, I jsut say gg cause they can't beat it. NE have it easier with their super chim. get them out and you dont have to worry aobout orc

HH are possibly the worst ranged unit in the entire game. They only become semi-useful as berserkers, but they are completely useless as HH. that is why i don't even use them in my example.

 

[Samsara]

Originally posted by NeverGoingBack
ok u say u cant focus fire with spiders. Thast BS. they are ranged they can stand behind each other and still target an enemy, they cant ff good? that was lame statement any unit or hero falls quily to fiend FF. and have u seen what spiders+nova does to air such as hipps wyvs.

hunts are far from overpowered. they are costly and die extremely fast vs any base defense. you should stop using this unit as quily as possible, its only good for early creeping and defense.

chims overpowered? to bad the most youll ever see in solo game is like 2.

orcs dont die to air as ez as you think. an orc ground army can take mass chippo, and mass gargs and wyrms. they might be slightly disadvataged to early air, but there base defense and ground strength make up for it plenty, and thats not even counting bats and wyvs. Try HH with caster and fs, tc, and sh tri hero. adding tauren later... it owns everything, and anything.

1. their AI is the worst in the game, first off they cant hit webbed units unless you force them to. they have the same "creature size" as a tauren chieftain meaning that you can get 10 rifles to do an "arc" around whatever you are force firing as opposed to the 6-7 of the fiends you can get. have you seen what knights/tauren/any heavy melee (yes that includes bears) do to fiends. Dont ever make a flying unit against a ranged unit. That's why NO ONE makes gargs against rifles right?

2.hunts are the undisputed "best unit" out of tier 1. they are fast, hit more than one unit, dont take extra damage from melee. pit 12 hunts against 12 grunts, maybe 12 fiends if you wish, i have seen 12 trolls with endurance lose to hunts, is that imbalance? you guys just cant help but keep using them while the other races use mid tier 2 units. Of course statue fiends with a dk will own a kotg with hunts. you need other units.

3. chims do a shitload of magic damage (OMG THEY KILL MY FOOTIE IN TWO HITS IMBA) and they do the second highest amount of siege damage in the game plus they are air to boot. i say we make them cost slightly less than a wyrm but make their food 5.

4. please tell me what can beat 8 griffs 10 hawks, rest casters?
dont say bats unless you hope to lose 10 of them right off the bat due to shackles.
i could say the same for hippo/chims/riders/talons except that NE would get more losses but win in the end.

 

[Theroy]

Originally posted by Samsara
2.hunts are the undisputed "best unit" out of tier 1. they are fast, hit more than one unit, dont take extra damage from melee. pit 12 hunts against 12 grunts, maybe 12 fiends if you wish, i have seen 12 trolls with endurance lose to hunts, is that imbalance? you guys just cant help but keep using them while the other races use mid tier 2 units. Of course statue fiends with a dk will own a kotg with hunts. you need other units.

Hunts are tier 1.5. Raped by fiends and raped by riflemen.... raped by natural base defence. Rush orc with them I think not. Frost towers with gouls gg hero. Tier 2 comes there goes the hunts usefullness. Quit comming down on the Hunt I swear there's something called a tech try it sometime.

 

[Emperor Pan I]

Originally posted by Theroy
Hunts are tier 1.5. Raped by fiends and raped by riflemen....

yeah all your units in the example are tier 1.5, whats your point?

raped by natural base defence.

Because I forgot the natural defence was supposed to aid teh hunts in killing your opponent.

Rush orc with them I think not.

Wouldn't want to build a balista, tha would mean hitting more than the "h" button and the "a" button.

Frost towers with gouls gg hero.

the conversation about hunts suddenly the focus changed to your hero that can blink away.

Tier 2 comes there goes the hunts usefullness.

Yeah might as well suicide those hunts because when tier 2 comes u have to micro with other units to keep those tier 1 units alive from tier 2 units

Quit comming down on the Hunt I swear there's something called a tech try it sometime.

Because the person who complains about NE tier 1 at tier 2 is telling other people to learn to tech.

 

[NeverGoingBack]

well ofcourse fiends are gonna get in close, thier fat asses wont allow an enemy army to move anywhere and just ff them to death.

hunts are barely worth thier cost. like i said dont use them asap, why cause they are only good for creeping and early defense. what the poin of defeating an enemy tier1 army, when you cant attack thier base afterwards with out losing your whole army. they suck they really do, and if i can get away with not using them at all i would.

I do play FFA regularlly, and the orc ground army is the most common and dominant strats in it ok! NE heros die to orc heros ez, your 4 to 6 chims fall to bezerks plus lust and heal no problem, leaving with nothing again but the worthless hippo. NOT including if they add bats.

 

[Andrew]

It's funny when Theroy is always whining about UD.

 

[Beer $lut]

Originally posted by eat_ma_shorts
wtf r u guys talking about.
or cs are the ones that need nerfing they are so ****en strong they need to balance wyverns alot
Ud also need a little amount of nerfing

No they don't. Maybe a tiny bit on gruntapult, but undead needs the biggest nerfs. Especially the Dk, but i figured out how to own him in humans.

 

[SoNiC_tHe_IgEl]

Originally posted by Andrew
It's funny when Theroy is always whining about UD.

u have to .... cuz its so ****ing gay imba BS!

 

[Andrew]

No.. it's not imba.. that's just an excuse for you losing.

 

[Theroy]

Originally posted by Andrew
No.. it's not imba.. that's just an excuse for you losing.

No it's imbalance...

 

[Samsara]

Originally posted by Theroy
Hunts are tier 1.5. Raped by fiends and raped by riflemen.... raped by natural base defence. Rush orc with them I think not. Frost towers with gouls gg hero. Tier 2 comes there goes the hunts usefullness. Quit comming down on the Hunt I swear there's something called a tech try it sometime.

1.5? how? because you have to buy another building to get them? oh wait i guess i must not have gotten the memo saying that you need a graveyard/warmill/blacksmith for the other "1.5" units :rolleyes

and please just humor me, try 12 rifles against 10 hunts. if you want, try 12 fiends. the hunts will win. glaives are overpowered for a tier 1 ability

Originally posted by Andrew
No.. it's not imba.. that's just an excuse for you losing.

for the first time in your life i agree with you, dont think that will increase your reputation with me.

 

[eat_ma_shorts]

hunts are easy to kill
if you ask me orcs are the most imba ones. wyverns, grunts, bats blablabla they are way too strong in my opinion and they also have such a strong ground force. they have an extremely strong air force once bui;lt and they have extremely good casters
patch 1.16 is the best and the worst patch ever because of the advantages you get form the imba and the disadvantages u get because of the imba

 

[SoNiC_tHe_IgEl]

huntz arent imba! that's just an excuse for you losing.

 

[AHappyChineseBoy]

1)Hunts > Grunts/Ghouls/Footies
2)Archers > Fiends/HHs/Riflemen
3)Orc is fine, they're not overpowered, in fact they need a little buff in terms of anti magic and anti air.
4)NE is fine and are not underpowered. That's the most retarded statement ever. NE has the strongest tier 1, they have the best meat, and they have the best air. They have healing constantly through the game, and their units doesn't cost much.
5)Coil should kill an archer in 1 hit, they cost 130 gold, they take up 2 food, they're tier 1. They can be massed easily, and if a DK takes out an archer, not only has he wasted 75 mana from his tiny mana pool, but he has also delayed a nuke.
6)UD may need a little nerf in terms of fiends, because fiends are a bit imbalanced, they are way to strong and they become anti air easily without changing up the strat. They should do a little less dmg. And You can easily micro with them because of burrow skill.
7)HU needs a buff but DEFINATELY NOT in terms of heroes. HU has the best heroes in the game. They have AOE, Stun, and heal. HU just needs a buff in terms of units like footmen, because footmen do blow. Rifles are fine, but they should be a bit cheaper, and knights should be stronger.
8)You guys suck at warcraft, how about instead of making assumptions about the game and how it should be played, how about you actually play the game instead of claim you play it. I'm not saying go on 24/7 but really now, none of you guys ever play the game from what I see. Oh and try and get atleast 60% with every race before you judge its strengths and weaknesses. I may be a hypocrite with that last sentence, but you guys have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Emperor Pan I]

The Number one reason why theroy should never give his oppinion on balance because he thinks he knows the game is here:

What a noob

omg rofl noob gg and gtfo

 

[NeverGoingBack]

Originally posted by AHappyChineseBoy
1)Hunts > Grunts/Ghouls/Footies
2)Archers > Fiends/HHs/Riflemen
3)Orc is fine, they're not overpowered, in fact they need a little buff in terms of anti magic and anti air.
4)NE is fine and are not underpowered. That's the most retarded statement ever. NE has the strongest tier 1, they have the best meat, and they have the best air. They have healing constantly through the game, and their units doesn't cost much.
5)Coil should kill an archer in 1 hit, they cost 130 gold, they take up 2 food, they're tier 1. They can be massed easily, and if a DK takes out an archer, not only has he wasted 75 mana from his tiny mana pool, but he has also delayed a nuke.
6)UD may need a little nerf in terms of fiends, because fiends are a bit imbalanced, they are way to strong and they become anti air easily without changing up the strat. They should do a little less dmg. And You can easily micro with them because of burrow skill.
7)HU needs a buff but DEFINATELY NOT in terms of heroes. HU has the best heroes in the game. They have AOE, Stun, and heal. HU just needs a buff in terms of units like footmen, because footmen do blow. Rifles are fine, but they should be a bit cheaper, and knights should be stronger.
8)You guys suck at warcraft, how about instead of making assumptions about the game and how it should be played, how about you actually play the game instead of claim you play it. I'm not saying go on 24/7 but really now, none of you guys ever play the game from what I see. Oh and try and get atleast 60% with every race before you judge its strengths and weaknesses. I may be a hypocrite with that last sentence, but you guys have no clue what you are talking about.

So are we Trying to make this Orcraft. Becuase that's is exactly what happens if u buff they're AA, and AM. they have AOE dispell just like everyother race, except NE who can only really use thiers to defend thier base, and why the hell would wanna make the race that has the strongest ground army any better vs. air. If they are a little weaker in than the others in that department (witch their not) they make up for it plenty with your strength and defense.

Footmen blow? they own archers with defend upgrade, so people are gonna complain imba when NE get hunts vs them at 1.5?

 

[Samsara]

150 gold for the ability to defeat an archer?

even with defend, you can still beat footies if you can micro correctly.

i say researching defend should give you 2 armor passively w/o clicking the defend button.

 

[Torubu]

THEROY'S PATCH 1.17 DETAILS.

NE HEROES GAIN 2X EXPERIENCE.
HUNTS NO LONGER NEED HUNTERS HALL, AND ARE BUILT FROM TREE OF LIFE.
NE CAN REVEAL WHOLE MAP FOR WHOLE GAME, 1 GOLD. THIS WAY THERES NO NEED TO HACK.
CHIMS TIER 1, COME FROM ANCIENT OF WAR.
UD IS REMOVED FROM GAME.
ORC LOSES ALL TIER 1 UNITS, DEMOLISHERS, AND WYVERNS.
HUMAN CAN ONLY GO PALADIN FIRST NOW, AND NO MK OR AM IN LADDER GAMES.

uh oh, this seems to be the kind of balance he'd love. he'd still probably complain about orc's massing spirit walkers or something and beating him.

 

[AHappyChineseBoy]

Burrows aren't really that great for defending, they're easy to kill. I would rather rush an orc/hu then an NE or an UD.

And they ARE weaker in terms of anti air. They can't do shit against heavy air. Batriders get slaughtered by hippos/dhawks/gargs.

They have the strongest ground army but it's also the most expensive. Orc ground gets raped by little things like entangle. And they cost too much food. Grunts don't do shit in tier 2 IMO because all melee gets ownt.

And yes your right about dispel maybe I went to far on that

But I still stand by my opinion that footmen do suck. Theyll get raped by hunts and rifles will get raped by archers. Shit, footies will get raped by a potm and a kotg. They're just too weak. Defend wont do shit.

 

[Andrew]

Animate Dead is gonna be better b/c it won't be dispellable.