2.4 and it's Disappointment

[Kao]

Cool. Sunwell comes out, a Legendary Bow that hunters have been waiting 3 years for finally hits the item tables of bosses. New badge gear for my shaman to get (she doesn't do 25 mans)! Excited, yeah!

Crossbow of Relentless Strikes.






This bow is *better* than Black Bow of the Betrayer for raiding. Great. So I'm going to be upgrading my Illidan Bow (which actually took work) to this super casual 150-badge crossbow that every rogue, warrior, hunter, druid, shaman, paladin, priest, mage, and warlock will have.

Yay!

Then, when I kill Kil'jaden, he drops the oh-so-sought-after legendary bag slot. BBotB + Timeless Arrows= 148 DPS, 533 topend vs 148 DPS, 540 topend. I gain about 30 DPS upgrading to the legendary, compared to the 200-500+ that rogues get going to warglaives.

2.4 is a disappointment for raiding hunters. This patch has greatly diminished my eagerness to raid; finish new content.

[SouLess]

Lolhunters.

[Renzokuken]

Blizz is catering too much to the casual. You don't even need to raid to get gear just as good. It's redonkulous.

[Kao]

Indeed. Seeing the 2.4 changes just made me consider (even more so) my retirement from raiding. Why waste time when I can get it for 1/100th of the effort, a few months later?

[SouLess]

Raiding isn't about the gear, it's about the experience.

[prettyinpink]

Originally Posted by SouLess

Raiding isn't about the gear, it's about the experience.

I agree with that totally, it's about the victory not the crap you come out with.

[TrongaMonga]

If that would be the full truth, people would only kill Illidan once and get done with it.

But it's not, and people keep killing Illidan over and over only for the purpose of upgrading their own gear, which can now be done by running heroics all day long.

It really is retarded.

[Octopor]

**** casual people, they can PvP.

And this Nether Vortex thing really pisses me off, I want to be one of the only people in a BG with Stormherald because I worked for it. Blizzard needs to stop rewarding people for hard work they don't do.

[SouLess]

No, all you hxc raiders need to stop qqing because casuals are getting gear thats decently on par with BT and other such. All they're doing is making it easier for everyone to get epic gear and gear up for when WOTLK comes out, so the starter quests won't have items that outclass t5 like how BC reward items for hellfire outclassed almost all gear anyone had regardless of how long they were raiding.

At least now all the raiding youve done and all the raiding you will continue to do won't be completely wasted once WOTLK is here.

Edit; Also, theres something like under 5% of the total WoW players that have seen the high high endgame content (ala Nax, soon to be the new 2.4 25man, BT, so on and so forth) and have been able to get that gear -- which is being changed to where 'casuals' can still eventually recieve loot thats on par with decentl high end raid gear.

And you guys are seriously overexaggerating what's going on. The new 5man is only gonna have 'bt-esque' drops from the last boss on Heroic, the rest will be rares/epics on par with Prince drops. Theres a few new badge items that are opening up but at 150 badges, it's going to be a decent amount of farming. People don't mash Kara, ZAx2 and 10 heroics a week like everyone seems to think they do. The 150 badges FOR MOST people will end up taking about as long as it took you to get up to Hyjal/BT and beyond, at a rate of 1 item per x amount of time, compared to your farm status SSC/Eye/Mag/Hyjal/Most of BT drops that you probably have a good portion of gear that doesn't need to be UG'ed and if it is, its only like for an additional 10 healing 2stam or 10ap 5str.

[TrongaMonga]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Comparing the work required to get into Black Temple to the work required to run one heroic per day is nonsense. Might take the same time, but the ammount of effort you put into it is not even imaginably close.

So neither should the rewards.

--Edit--

Sure, it's a logical argument to say they're giving it for wotlk. But both you and I know that's not the reason they're doing it.

Now, I have absolutely no problem with people wanting to see high-end content, and Blizzard giving them some help. In the end, it only means that raiders will only see content before casuals, and, well, it's not that much of a bad thing.

But it is no fair for raiders, at all. They might just go casual and wait for Blizzard to spoon feed them too.

[SouLess]

I have no idea what I'm talking about? Are you sure? Cause I'm pretty sure I do. HxC raiders on WoW are the worst type of MMO players ever. You guys qq about every little thing, about how hard ti is to get loot, how many people are in said loot parties, how theres gonna be loot that's comprible to your saught after epix, when in reality you ARE being spoonfed.

WoW is the ezmode mmo of all mmos, and I'm prety sure I've played largescale more MMO's than well, all of you combined. Go play DAoC and spend 2 hours RUNNING to the epic mob, then another hour or 2 killing him, only to have him drop ONE item. Yes, ONE. Or go play L2 where you apparntly raid some dragon with 400 people for 3 hours only to wipe and lose 2 levels that take weeks to get. Or EQ where you try and raid endgame content and wipe, losing your body to a point where it's unredeemable and all your items decay, leaving your character with just his naked body to fend for himself, all the while losing a huge chunk of xp every kill.

WoW is for casuals, and blizzard is tailoring the game to them. Why else do you think theres 10million players?

And it's not fair for those of us that can't spend hours upon hours upon hours a week doing BT and Hyjal over and over and over and over so we can get some loot.

Raiders QQ when casuals get items that are actually decent for once, yet when new raid items (lollegendaries and such) come out, casuals hardly if ever complain "aw man thats not fair!"

They're being implimented for those of us that don't have the time to go through Kara, Gruuls, Mag, SSC, TK, Hyjal, then BT, just to do these new zones. Remember Nax? Probably not, beause only .04% of WoW players set foot in it up to the day BC was released. (Census) They don't want their new areas to be another ****up like that place was.

Also, pretty sure all you guys are doing is qq qq qq qq qq casuals get decent gear qq qq qq qq. Have you even looked at the things your crying about? It's not like we can farm all day every day and be up to the kind of loot you guys are in within a month, because there just isn't that much things added. So what if we get some beast DPS sword or Axe or some crazy Mageblade that costs us 150 Badges. You guys get t5/6, and all the other insane amount of gear/drops that youre guilds are getting by farming said instances.

Trust me, 'casuals' that go and buy these items will have no where near the same amount of gear as a hxc raider, and it's not like you can only get them if you're never going to raid. Hell, I know plenty of people that are happy about this, because they can finally upgrade their weapon and what not because they just arn't getting drops in said instances. My kara group this week had like 193755 mage drops, and absolutely 0 paladin drops. Whos to say this isn't going to keep up for another few weeks, and is that really fair? If I'm doing TK and SSC with a guild and I'm the 'lowest' on the totem pole of getting gear, wouldn't the guild want me buying these 'godly epics' so that I can get beefed up and match some of the other guild members?

Seriously, you guys are acting like this is going to break the game. If anything, it's going to make it easier to find more people to raid with, and have more people seeing the content that Blizzard wants us to.

[TrongaMonga]

Death to the commies I say!

[Kao]

SouLess, why would you raid if you can get better gear (later, with no effort), after the first kill? And **** you casuals, you are the reason why this game is as stupid as it is now. Upgrading from a 25 man bow that actually takes COORDINATION from more than 5 people to complete, plus more time invested should NOT have a casual upgrade such as the badge crossbow.

Blizzard failed in their itemization because casuals were crying that they didn't get BT loot without investing the time.

Well, congratulations, you have got what you wanted, you've pretty much made raiding in this game worthless after the first kill, you greedy ****s.

EDIT-
I am all for gearing everyone. However I do not feel that casual upgrades that everyone can get should be SUPERIOR to raiding gear that takes all the stuff to get it. That's stupid.

[TrongaMonga]

Indeed, Kao presented a really valid point:

All those examples you gave, Mike, are of zerging. Pure, simple zerg.

WoW is not like that, believe me. It requires a ****load of coordination and l2playing to be able to go as far as Illidan, and believe me I know, since I haven't been there yet.

Anyone that's been looking knows how ****ing much it sucks to see people who can, literally, go AFK in BGs, get gear that looks as nice as yours, which is what this game is, in the end, about, and how you can get gear from badges that's just as good as the gear that actually took effort to get.

And yes, Mike. You have no idea of what you're talking about before you actually do end-game raiding.

[Teddy]

Originally Posted by TrongaMonga

Indeed, Kao presented a really valid point:

All those examples you gave, Mike, are of zerging. Pure, simple zerg.

WoW is not like that, believe me. It requires a ****load of coordination and l2playing to be able to go as far as Illidan, and believe me I know, since I haven't been there yet.

Anyone that's been looking knows how ****ing much it sucks to see people who can, literally, go AFK in BGs, get gear that looks as nice as yours, which is what this game is, in the end, about, and how you can get gear from badges that's just as good as the gear that actually took effort to get.

And yes, Mike. You have no idea of what you're talking about before you actually do end-game raiding.

l2 wasn't pure simple zerg, it was 200+ people co-ordinated, thats hardcore raiding. I did that **** for like 2 years. Then I came to wow pre-mc.

all wow raids today are casual compared to pre-bc 40 mans.

Thats the direction that blizzard is taking the game because thats the direction the majority of the people would benefit from. You guys are just selfish, and insecure. "omg i wont have the best loot on the server anymore". When new content is released .People will still recognize good guilds for their accomplishments in past content. Don't worry your e-peen wont shrink that much.

[TrongaMonga]

Yes, it's all about how my epeen is ****ing huge even though I haven't done BT to full yet >>

Dude, sure there are other games that are even more hardcore. So what? Did they reward casuals with enough gear and **** that those 200+ people had?

Doesn't make any sense, mate. If they want to make casuals play, they've got their PvP that already ruins the game. Why making PvE a lot easier than it is?

Dude, they could at least make it as in Diablo, PvE difficulties.

[Kao]

If you got first in a 10 mile marathon for a reward that was 10 million, but then a week later gave 12.5 million to everyone except you just for competing, how would you feel?

[please help me :(]

it's going to make it easier to find more people to raid with, and have more people seeing the content that Blizzard wants us to.

I agree with you.I thought i will never see 25 man contents but yesterday I raided gruuls with a pug. blizzard is going to remove the attunment of Hyjal TK and BT and we are going to see more pugs for 25 contents .

[TrongaMonga]

You really won't. Unless they're nerfed to oblivion, the 25 man raids still require loads of coordination that PuGs simply can't get.

I guess it's the only consolation for raiders, but yeah, it's always nice that more people get to see more content.

Just as long as they deserve it. It's a fair reward.

[SouLess]

Originally Posted by Kao

If you got first in a 10 mile marathon for a reward that was 10 million, but then a week later gave 12.5 million to everyone except you just for competing, how would you feel?

That's an inaccurate analogy. If you got first in a 10 mile marathon and got 10 million, then the next week they decided to give everyone in the race a CHANCE to get 12.5 million, would be a better one.