U~Wyv vs Ud

[You-iN]

Is mass wyvern unbeatable against UD? I meen an orc player with good micro is really hard to beat. Has a ud player I start up with fiends. It works pretty good at begining but when he start getting more it kinda sucks. I know that gargs wont work because of chian lighing and destro sucks since patch 1.16. So what should i get against mass wyverns ?

[Emperor Pan I]

alt-q-q

ull prolly get alot of ignorant palyers who run in and say ud is imbalanced with web blah blah.

no one know what they are talking about. to beat an orc palyer who masses wyverns u need to have incredible micro, and ur opponent needs to be shit. equal players, the ud even with an 80 food fiend, cant beat wyverns with a 60 food army.

To beat it? I tower rush those ****ers. because towers>wyverns.
and most orc palyers tech to beastry so they cant get demo. now if they get a barracks with wyverns, they are going to have less wyverns, so that is your chance to get abombs for say grunts orwhatever, and they should soak up the damage if u can get that far. overall, get AOE spells. get a lich second and a panda third. nova and drunken haze is incredibly good.

[You-iN]

OK thx!!! I never did tower rush with ud could you give me a build order ??

[Sakuhta]

Lol, Gargs > all air man, they do bitchin damage, and if you have DL you get vampric cause they're melee.

[AHappyChineseBoy]

ROFL PAN OMFG FOR THE LAST TIME, FIENDS OWN WYVS

Fiends web usually tends to spread the wyvs up making it impossible for wyvs to focus fire.

And to the person who made this thread, anyone with good micro can beat anyone with horrible micro. so try and get good at micro and maybe it will solve all your problems.

[Emperor Pan I]

u have yet to get me on battle.net so i cna prove to u how wrong u are.

gargs? dont make me laugh any orc with half a brain will get bats that combined with chainlightning makes bats obsolete in the equation

[Sakuhta]

Not if you already killed their army then just make anything else. It's not like your opponent is the only one that can adapt man. So sad.

[You-iN]

LoL Man !!! spider dont ****ing own wyv.. they have more damage and more hp andmy micro is ok... just if I face someone whit an average micro it all ****ed up. oH AND...gargs do own wyv... but with chain lightning and all shit... they don't anymore.

[Sakuhta]

Spider = piercing = extra damage to wyv
wyv = piercing = reduced damage to spider

[AHappyChineseBoy]

^Nuff said. Either way, by the time you get wyvs i would've explored you and would harrass you like crazy =P I caught someone teching one time who tried to harrass me with a BM and when I found out, I sent my whole army right on the outline of his base and made him burrow the whole time and starved his ass while my web took out 1 by 1

[Ntrik_]

meh

Fiends + Dk + Lich and statues can own wyv, frost nova on them and death coil on the dying ones to kill off their armies quickly, web them down and focus fire = GG

btw, Light armor takes 200% dmg from piercing I believe.

And mediumarmor takes 50%

"OMFG WHAT ABOUT POISON AND CHAIN LIGHTNING!!!"

death coil + healing scroll + statues

[AHappyChineseBoy]

so it's settled, fiends own wyvs, you got 2 people who know what they're talking about =]

[Emperor Pan I]

who here actualy has played undead, and gone up agaisnt a good orc palyer massing wyverns?

who has done it twice? four times? ten times

You do realize that in ud vs orc matches that orc wins 95% of the time if they mass wyverns. All orcs getin these matchups are wyverns. To prove this point I played orc the other day and beat a level 25 ud palyer and in the begining he even knew i was getting wyverns cause he told me and I still owned him with wyverns and his micro was badass, but fiends dont do anything. Ever watch those games between madfrog and Grubby. The 60 food wyvern army plowed through the 80 food fiends army and the only way madfrog won was using destroyers and in the new patch taht option is gone.

What u all say is theory craft. u say this is supposed to counter this so it does. Well archers are supposed to counter gargs, but ud palyers are able to plow through NE players even with archers. Go out and play good orc palyers who mass wyverns as undead and then come back and talk to me.

[AHappyChineseBoy]

i have played good orc players and obviously you haven't, it's not about micro, it's about just in general which unit is better. im talking about typical decent players going at it 1on1 wyvs and fiends.

[Emperor Pan I]

one fiend will own one wyvern yes. 10 fiends will not own 10 wyverns however.

[nanomastermind]

I have been reading this thread and i need to point out that fiends deal a lot more damage to wyverns despite everything else. A wyvern's dps is only 15 vs. fiends while a fiend's dps is 28.5 vs wyverns. Besides u could always web a few wyverns and retreat a bit, then webbing the others and only having to deal with a portion of the wyverns at once. With a good bit of micro on your part fiends can hold their own against wyverns easily, especially if you research burrow to save dying fiends. Plus with DK and Lich support, you can also heal dying fiends and nuke the wyverns. As for their heroes, you can either nuke them or ignore them, although you should kill off any wolves you see fast. Basically your heroes should be able to balance against their heroes. Finally i can't stress this enough, if you see them teching, by all means rush them. At the least you should be able to take out a few burrows with fiend ff, skellies, and coil if you keep the pressure on them. I have won 80-85% of the time vs orc tech by rushing and i snipe wyverns with ease so unless there has been some kind of gross imbalance that I am not aware of then fiends -> wyverns.

P.S. this is my first post.

[Emperor Pan I]

fiends have a dps of 14 dmg and a wyvern has a dps of 20 dmg. webbing a few and retreating does nothing, as the rest of the wyverns will be plowing through the units moving back ,and focusing still wont work casue of SH with healing wave or a FS+TC combo who shockwaves/lightning ur units

[nanomastermind]

Firstly Pan you seemed to have missed the fact that I said fiend dps was 28.5 vs wyverns while wyvern dps was 15 vs fiends due to the wyvern's piercing attack and light armor, which deals 75% dmg to fiends while receiving 200% dmg in return because of the fiend's piercing attack and medium armor.

Secondly i do need to point out once again that your heroes should be able to counterbalance their heroes. Healing Wave? Death Coil or statue healing. Chain Lighning/Shockwave? Frost Nova/Carrion Swarm. Also buy scrolls of healing from your shop or goblin merchants, which are on the majority of maps.

Thirdly healing wave heals 130 dmg to 1 unit and less to others. By this point you should have a good number of fiends which deal 57 dmg to the wyverns with each attack so you can still ff and kill the wyverns easily despite healing wave.

Lastly, if a hero which isn't the tauren chieftan is annoying you, you could try to ff on it with your fiends and nuking it with your heroes. If that does not kill it it will certainly retreat and leave you free of chain lightning/healing wave to worry about. If it comes back a death coil and/or ff should finish it off. On the other hand if they try to ff on your heroes use pots/dc/dp/micro hero.

[Ntrik_]

Well, as undead you have to remember those annoying wolves... 2 of them will surely rape those fiends fast.. (but can be dispelled by destroyers) with chain lightning, and shock wave as pan mentioned.

But then again, you can just heal them or burrow some of them and unburrow again.

And theres statues, Fiends can rape those wyvs with certain supporting units.

[AHappyChineseBoy]

Wolves aren't the problem, if you call a low leveled tc/wolves meat then you're definately going to lose most of your games. Like Mastermind said, there are many counters that can be used against wyvs that orcs use, and UD responds with.

And if the UD has destroyers, wolves give good portion of mana to destroyers, and we all know AOE rapes everything. Either way, it's obvious that fiends own wyvs