U~Against Human, assuming Archmage is hero.

[Shizo]

Lets say that the human player was gonna go standard strategy, and choose archmage, wouldnt it be wise to get lich king, becuz frost nova's 100 damage to target hits 1/4 of the archmages hit point, plus it hits any footman that happen to be around it?

[Biske]

Coil can hit 2 times faster then Nova, and by the time you get into a big tangle, your DK can throw a coil for a high of 4-6 times on his own mana. Nova is too slow, takes too much mana, and the slow affects last for a very short time.

[CptJackSparrow]

Although Nova does hit a bunch of people and make them slow...im going to agree with chibi here and say that DK would be a better choice in the beginning. You will do a lot more damage with the DK in that situation than with a lich. It depends on the situation, but with polls like these you need to be more clear on the situation.

~*Mitch*~

[x42bn6]

True.Using the DK also puts your Ghouls and Fiends at better positions with the aura. However, the Lich develops amazingly, I think it gains 3.4 Intelligence every level, so next minute wham you have a really super-powered Lich! However, the DK is in a much better position, being a nice fighter overall too.

[Shizo]

how do you figure that death knight hits 5-6 times on its own mana? it gets 225 mana to start, death coil costs 75 mana, i messed up in poll thing, i said 2, well it does 3 times, you get 2 shots, and a heal, or 2 heal and a shot, or 3 of one.

I still say lich king is better, you havent given me a reason to beleive otherwise.

[Biske]

I don't care if I've given you a damned reason. Do youself a favor and quite trying to be the "I-think-I'm-The-Best" here. You'd think you'd get tierd of shooting yourself in the foot every time you post, wouldn't you Calamity Brain? Look up to Pans sticky. Look for Death Knight, Level 6. Look at his mana. 390. Devide that my 75. What do you get? Now we all know you're gunna run into atleast 1 tome of intelligence in a any given game. So add 20 to that. Now what do you get. Coupled with 1 Mana Potion you have a damned good Hero Sniper.

Now, take the Lich at level 6. Only 555 Base mana. That's only 4 Novas. Plus the reload time, you have one slow ass shot to depend on. Now true, 150 base times 4 is 600 damage, but in half the time the Coil can to 75% of that damage without a potion and tomes. Face the facts "Shiz", your preference is not the best as a first.

[Emperor Pan I]

Lich really isn't that useful anymore. somehow it is complete and total crap now.

you mentioned that nova 4 times does 600 damage. A DK at level 3 deals 300 damage with one coil. 2 coils at a cost of only 150 mana which is the same price as one nova deals the same as 4 novas. and you say the lich is king? only thing nova has is splash and slow, and the splash doesnt do that much damage, and the slow isn't very long

and it takes 600 mana to cast 4 novas

[RageWinterchill]

The situation obviously seems to be in the early game, seeing as how you're mentioning the DK can only cast Coil 3 times. Well, I'd still pick the DK, as he is the ideal starting hero for any matchup. The thing is, Coil doesn't become a true sniping weapon until at least level 2. Prior to that, Coil should be reserved for healing badly wounded Ghouls/Fiends who can't be danced to safety. If you must, you can throw just 1 Coil onto a badly weakened AM to scare him off.

[bloah]

I have to agree the Lich is definitly not the "King" in this situation. DK is defianitly the way to go for your starting hero, rushing or not. It's all explained above and I think I can save my breath of saying it over... JUST USE DK. If it's your opinion that the Lich is the king [which I believe is what your saying] then no one cares. DK rules here .

Besides if you were smart, you'd go DK. Coil and Unholy Aura? Just about the best a hero could go. Get Coil in the beginng, kill off a few creeps, lvl up to 2 and get Unholy Aura. Wham! That's a perfect start right there. Then since you just love the Lich, use him as your second hero and that's all we can really say. We might not like the Lich as much as you which is why everyones arguing against you. Play smart and win buddy.

[CitricAcid13]

I'd have to agree with ^^ DK is a hero killer. (Second best to my hero MK), and the aura helps a lot. And talking about how the hero will do so much damage... DK starts off averaging 30 damage... Lich? 25

[Shizo]

Ok if lich king sucks so freaking bad, then why dont i lose when i use it? yet i always lose when using death knights coil?

when i get my home comp fixxed i will post a replay of me raping a human player with lich king, watch and see how powerful he can be.

[CitricAcid13]

Maybe because... you're facing noobs?

I forgot to mention dreadlord's sleep. Sleep, surround and before t he enemy knows it his hero is dead.

[RageWinterchill]

It's just Lich, BTW. The Lich King is too busy being fused with Arthas.

And, no offense intended at all, I fail to see why you lose with the DK and yet not lose with the Lich. Although I like the Lich very much and have a great deal of respect for his power, I've only been able to win with the Lich first if I'm either up against a rookie (am I the only one who hates the word noob? ><;;; ) or if I'm rushing. Care to explain/post a replay of what you do with each hero?

[Shizo]

uh from what i know 39-8 isnt noobs, o yeah, i have only met like 2 lvl 11 noobs in my life, so how am i constantly facing noobs when i am 39-8 solo, at lvl 11?

[Biske]

Stupid players. Shizo, shut up. Face it, you may like the Lich, but the majority don't. And it's just a fluke that you loose and you win with such Heros, not skill.

[Emperor Pan I]

lets not get to hostile here, we don't want a flame war of "**** you, **** you bitch" ok?

[RageWinterchill]

Shizo, forget the flames, and forget any flames you're thinking of spewing. Now, I'm going to ask again...

Care to explain/post a replay of what you do with each hero?

Thanks in advance.

[Shizo]

Currently i cant do a replay, because my computer isnt working, but ill give explanations


Lich King------------------------------

1st skill i get frost nova, while king is training, i get 4 ghouls to go along with creep party, i kill easiest creep on the map near my base, and continue building a few ghouls(i already have consuming ability(i forgot name)) by the time i finish my second creep i should now have 8 ghouls and lvl 2 lich king in party, my main building is upgrading to second level. From there i start getting a few crypt fiends, by now i usually have found my enemys creep party, killed a few units to get lvl 3 and ran out, or let him run.

now i have lvl 2 frost nova, 6-7 ghouls, 4-5 fiends, now is when i search for opponents base to go do a little harrassing/scouting. depending on what units i see my opponent preparing to get, is how i decide what to also get, my final party when i win the game is usually, lvl 7 lich king, lvl 5-6 death knight, lvl 3-4 dread lord, 2 gargs, 3 crypt fiends, 3 statues, 8 aboms, 2 frost wyrms, 1 necro, 2 banshees.

It works for me.

[RageWinterchill]

So you force early confrontations with the Lich? That could actually be a good idea, the Lich is very powerful in the beginning if you can micro right. But if you do the same with the DK... That's where your problem is. The idea with Lich first maybe force early confrontations, but the idea with DK first is to use his ability to creep hard to get your heroes to higher levels behind your opponent's back and then hit him when you've got fairly good leveled heroes. DK is not an early combatant, and only becomes a good fighter later on when he's got a level 2 or 3 Coil and is level 4 or higher.

[black_sh0es]

Originally posted by Shizo
Currently i cant do a replay, because my computer isnt working, but ill give explanations


Lich King------------------------------

1st skill i get frost nova, while king is training, i get 4 ghouls to go along with creep party, i kill easiest creep on the map near my base, and continue building a few ghouls(i already have consuming ability(i forgot name)) by the time i finish my second creep i should now have 8 ghouls and lvl 2 lich king in party, my main building is upgrading to second level. From there i start getting a few crypt fiends, by now i usually have found my enemys creep party, killed a few units to get lvl 3 and ran out, or let him run.

now i have lvl 2 frost nova, 6-7 ghouls, 4-5 fiends, now is when i search for opponents base to go do a little harrassing/scouting. depending on what units i see my opponent preparing to get, is how i decide what to also get, my final party when i win the game is usually, lvl 7 lich king, lvl 5-6 death knight, lvl 3-4 dread lord, 2 gargs, 3 crypt fiends, 3 statues, 8 aboms, 2 frost wyrms, 1 necro, 2 banshees.

It works for me.

You should give me a building order on that..Would ya?