Crushing NE vs OC strategy

[TheoStormhawk]

Ok, I just saw these games and I couldn't believe my eyes. This is incredible, I knew and I always said that the orc is imbalanced against the NE. Even Grubby (the best orc player in my opinion) couldn't doo much, though I don't understand his mass riders strategy.

The thing is that the talon is very effective and from what I saw at moon it doesn't even require so many archers, the orc can't doo nothing.

Grubby used in some parts dischenant, but dischenant is good only on faerie fire. Moon cycloned his heroes all the time barrely allowing Grubby to tp. He maintain that BM in the air, and his DH cleaved through Grubby's units.
That dischenant dispels the cyclone, but is it worth to cast it only for 2 units, and is very mana consuming.
What can an orc do against this?
Purge could be a good solution against cyclone but it stops the unit and slows it, I think blizzard should do something about this in their next patch (purge should just dispel friendly, not stop and slow).

I think a solution could be to have many spirit walkers, but they are so expensive and long time to train.

Please watch the replays and state your idea of an OC strategy against moon's talon tehnique!

The replays are from here

[Revelade]

Perhaps you could go Dark Ranger first and equip a potion of invisibility. When you feel or see that you are about to engage, move back, invisibilize your DR, silence a group of talons, and commence the attack. Wind Riders should be able to counter this, since cyclone does not work on them.

[Ntrik_]

I'll have to agree, orc air can be massacored by just few archers sadly...

I dont know, I suppose gruntapult may work, but NE's can always counter it by using some other units (I dont know... bear and something else?), but I guess that would depend on how fast the orc can pull out gruntapult without getting heavily attacked by NE player... which happens usually.

[Forged]

they player has to suck if they let you gruntapult in a 1v1... Fortunatlly, most mediocre ne players lack the micro to use dotts effectivlly.

[Chris]

Gruntapult only works if you got the enemy to a point where he goes more hunts or dryads than everything else.

[TheoStormhawk]

Revelade's ideea about the Dark Ranger is good I think that silence could be a good solution but if he gets 3 dryads this is out of the picture also(abolish).
The gruntapult strategy is very good, but not the micro would be hard, the thing is that the orc it is just to poor guys, he is a race with expensive long training time units and it has the hardest expansion possible.
I still say that the purge should be modified in order not to stop and slow the friendly units, just to dispel.

[Forged]

and it has the hardest expansion possible.

Yeah because a couple of grunts and spirit wolves can't take out a yellow camp...

[Chris]

Add a tinker to that, and let the goblins do the work. Then you can take the camp with that and a few grunts. However, you are kinda ****ed when the enemy attacks you.

[TheoStormhawk]

Come one guys, face it, I say that this is a bug.

I know that the elf dude is the mighty Spirit Moon, but Grubby is Grubby and he is not a player to be smashed like that.

Sometimes I can't believe this Blizzard guys, only 4 races and even those in my opinion are not well balanced.

[Forged]

Look at it this way, Spirit_Moon the best night elf in the world, has always been strongest against orc. Grubby the best orc in the world, has always been weak against ne, who do you think will win? Mixed with Grubby lost to good nes long before this patch came out.

[Revelade]

You know, you might be better off massing headhunters. It sounds crazy, but there will be so many, that they can't possibly float them all. With the ones that AREN'T floating, FF on the nearest DotT. It hurts you more if they float 2 tauren than if they float 5 headhunters (same food). It requires more mana as well.

Again uber nerfs, you want to have more units so that they waste uber spells on weaker units.

[Chris]

Well, if you use headhunters. You are going to need grunts to keep them occupied, otherwise you are going to lose some men. Stunning a load of them with a tauren chieftan helps too.

[Ntrik_]

Well if you nerf NE just because of this, NE wont stand a chance against hu or ud.

[Revelade]

Originally Posted by Hellwolf_36

Well, if you use headhunters. You are going to need grunts to keep them occupied, otherwise you are going to lose some men. Stunning a load of them with a tauren chieftan helps too.

Get regeneration and berserker upgrades. If you are worried about losing them, get doctors. Grunts are 3 food, so you can float all of them, but with trolls, you get 1/3 more units, and it will be hard to float all of them.

[Chris]

But you still need a good amount of melee, it will be a problem if your hero is the only melee attacker on your team.

[Revelade]

And why would you need melee when all they have is talons?

[Ntrik_]

Originally Posted by Revelade

And why would you need melee when all they have is talons?

So that you can let talons cyclone them all into teh air!!

yea, good question.

[Chris]

Then you carry Walkers to dispel it or purge it off. Plus, I would probably have demos for those kinds of people who like dryads and dotts.

[Ntrik_]

Originally Posted by Hellwolf_36

Then you carry Walkers to dispel it or purge it off. Plus, I would probably have demos for those kinds of people who like dryads and dotts.

So I guess NE would be massing range against orcs then.

[TheoStormhawk]

just adding a few archers would be enough