Upgrades

[Harris.On.Rento]

So.. do you think upgrades are worth of money? and which upgrades are better, attack or armor?

I personally make armor ups cos i think armor is more important than damage and i think like 2 armor for fiends is better than 5 damage...

[TheoStormhawk]

All the upgrades are important, but usually u don't have the money and the time to get full upgrades for all the units, that is why this must be a part of your strategy.
I mean for example if u fight against an orc with lot's of battriders and u have dragonhawk u try to go Dragonhide armor.
Damage is important too, for example I upgrade my riflemen to level 2 damage and only after that if I have rsources maybe I will upgrade level 1 armor. They must provide range damage, the hp resistande is provided buy footman and knights.
For the fiends the armor is important because most of the UD players use them and only them at start + a few skelies.So they require that armor because the grunts and the footman can really cause problems due to their excelent damage versus medium armor. The NE huntress is not a problem even if it got perfect damage versus fiends, the fiends have perfect damage against huntress and their damage is high even if the attack speed is slow.

[Emperor Pan I]

Usualy it is better to have ranged units with improved damage, and meele units with improved Armor. So if you have a two force army, a group of fiends, and a group of Abombs, the Fiends will do alot of damage from afar, while the abombs absorb the damage. It is the best system. Orcs are lucky, since they only have 3 upgrades, and thier armor works for all thier units.

All upgrades make a difference in the long run.

[TheoStormhawk]

Actually this is a huge advantage for orcs.

[Lizardbreath]

I suggest at least getting 1-2 of the upgrades for armor and at least 1 weapon upgrade. If not....well then you can pretty much kiss your units goodbye @ tier 3.

[Harris.On.Rento]

Originally Posted by TheoStormhawk

All the upgrades are important, but usually u don't have the money and the time to get full upgrades for all the units, that is why this must be a part of your strategy.
I mean for example if u fight against an orc with lot's of battriders and u have dragonhawk u try to go Dragonhide armor.

whaaat? does armor reduce unstable concotion damage?? .. Like if I have 6 armor which is like 25% damage reduction and UC does 600 damage, does it reduce it like 150??

Originally Posted by Pan

Orcs are lucky, since they only have 3 upgrades, and thier armor works for all thier units.

but orc upgrades are also most expensive I think. lvl 3 armor up costs like 300/375

[TheoStormhawk]

Originally Posted by Harris.On.Rento

whaaat? does armor reduce unstable concotion damage?? .. Like if I have 6 armor which is like 25% damage reduction and UC does 600 damage, does it reduce it like 150??

Of course it reduces the damage. Also u could add some staff of protection, and maybe devotion aura.
The thing is that your dragonhawk bust not be clumbed together too much, but high armor protects you especially against that 150 splash damage.

[Harris.On.Rento]

Originally Posted by TheoStormhawk

Of course it reduces the damage. Also u could add some staff of protection, and maybe devotion aura.
The thing is that your dragonhawk bust not be clumbed together too much, but high armor protects you especially against that 150 splash damage.

so with human: devotion aura lvl 3, scroll of protection, inner fire = 11.5 armor... + if like gryphons have lvl 3 armor up which is 6 i think. that makes total of 17.5 armor????? which is like 50% damage reduction, that's insane man.

[TheoStormhawk]

Originally Posted by Harris.On.Rento

so with human: devotion aura lvl 3, scroll of protection, inner fire = 11.5 armor... + if like gryphons have lvl 3 armor up which is 6 i think. that makes total of 17.5 armor????? which is like 50% damage reduction, that's insane man.

Yes it is 6 max armor for air units.
The armor is the main atribute for this race, remember, each race has a primarly attribute:

HM: armor (you already said how)
NE: damage (roar, trueshoot (only 3 units in the ne army have other than range attack), and faerie fire, +the fact that all the units have high damage ( a bear with roar can almost kill a tauren ).
UD: life regaining ability (unholy(lvl 3) + blight=fountain of health, and vampiric aura is almost mask of death for all the melee units, and statue multiple unit healing)
OC: attack speed (endurance aura + bloodlust)

[I_am_noob]

I am an Orc and Human players ( but human is the most ) so i have some exp here :

With Elf :
---If you use troops against mass acher/dryad , get footmen with your armor upgrades + defend ablility . Dont use defend >< huntress . At tier 2 , you can get some mortar with attack upgrade too.Bring the casters ,, they are powerful with healing and inner fire .
---If you use your troops against mass huntress , get few footmen + rife with attack upgrades .Cuz rife >< huntress . Bring your paladin , too . His aura help both .And remember too get mortar with attack upgrade
---If u use your troops >< mass giant / bear , ummm , tech to tier 3 fast then get knight with full armor upgrade + gryphon with full attack upgrade + Blood mage (banigh the giant / bear for gryphon attack them ) Bring some breakker too . Bear has mana
---If u use troops against talon , get 5-6 mortar with fully upgrade attack . Cua they attack the talon .
Oh , my mom tell me to go to sleep . See ya

[TheoStormhawk]

Ok, what u stated mostly here it is about perfect attack type in some cases.
Of course u must be careful every time at your units attack type and armor type, like u said footman vs archer (melee vs medium armor+ perfect damage), or gryphon vs bear (magic attack vs heavy armor=perfect damage), about the breaker vs the bear, it is not recomended because the feedback of the breaker will not stand against the huge damage of the bear (the breaker has medium armor and the bear melee attack).
Mass huntress strategy is used usually in 2v2 games, and is rarely used in 1v1 and even more rarely against human, u see rifle vs hunt has perfect damage, and hunt vs rifle is also perfect damage, like u said a few footman in front will be good.

About the giant and bear mass strategy, this is almost impossible to achieve, because the mg is trained from the same building(tree) as the bear, and iti takes a while, to get ready bears + mountain giants. So don't be scared about the giant, just be carreful about taunt, and against the bears don't try too much to go to gryphon very fast, just a few knights (not necessarily with full upgrades, let's say lvl2 attack and lvl 2 armor) and rifle and priests some breakers( breakers in the back of the knights, not in direct fight with the bear).
Don't count too much on mortar against units like talon or huntress, some simple piercing attack will do the joob, against talon some dispelling means are also required.

[Revelade]

Here's what I think:

Get the upgrades based on the weakness of your units.

Let's say you have lots of ghouls. Ghouls have great DPS, but as we all know, they don't last long. It's far wiser to upgrade their armor rather than attack. As for fiends, they have lots of HP, so you might be better off upgrading attack.

In the case of orc, grunts are already tough, so upgrading attack will balance things out. As for headhunters, IF anyone uses them, you might be better off upgrading armor, so they won't get easily sniped.

Just a reminder, the first level of all the upgrades is worth getting, since it provides the most benefits. Levels 2 and 3 are good, but the resource to effectiveness ratio is much lower than Level 1.

[Emperor Pan I]

Originally Posted by Revelade

Let's say you have lots of ghouls. Ghouls have great DPS, but as we all know, they don't last long. It's far wiser to upgrade their armor rather than attack. As for fiends, they have lots of HP, so you might be better off upgrading attack.

It's not thier aromr thats the problem, its thier overall heatlh power. Ghouls die quick to AOE spells, which armor does not affect.

[Dream_Walker]

i say armor would be more worthwile for damage, but it also takes a toll on your resources. if you cant afford for armor, afford for damage!

[Harris.On.Rento]

Originally Posted by Revelade

As for fiends, they have lots of HP, so you might be better off upgrading attack.

Fiends lot of hp? is 550 a lot? and almost always in 1on1 enemy focuses on fiends and at start vs. orcs, grunts pound fiends so bad. even with burrow, sometimes fiends die so fast that the one second that it takes to get fiend to burrow, it's already dead.

[Emperor Pan I]

Fiends have high hp comparatively speaking. Look at an archer, or a ghoul. Yeah Fiends have only 550, but a good player can use those fiends to really do destructive damage to any unit he chooses.

[TheoStormhawk]

Originally Posted by Harris.On.Rento

Fiends lot of hp? is 550 a lot? and almost always in 1on1 enemy focuses on fiends and at start vs. orcs, grunts pound fiends so bad. even with burrow, sometimes fiends die so fast that the one second that it takes to get fiend to burrow, it's already dead.

Yes man, there are lots of hp in 550, it has super damage and the biggest advantage is DK.
I don't know how but I always manage to have more fiends than grunts.

Originally Posted by Revelade

Let's say you have lots of ghouls. Ghouls have great DPS, but as we all know, they don't last long. It's far wiser to upgrade their armor rather than attack. As for fiends, they have lots of HP, so you might be better off upgrading attack.

Pan is right man, ghouls aren't very good.
This is one of my early strategies:
I tried to rush armor and attack, I mean I build graveyard fast as if I would want to get fiends, but I used it to get 1and1 upgrades for ghouls, and even with this they died in front of not upgraded footmans. The hp is too low for ghouls man even if the attack speed is "fast".They are good because they die quickly and u can get skelies or something. I use ghouls, and I micro like crazy to be able to make some damage with them and not get them killed, but against HM I'm not able to use it, I always go fiends against HM.
Against NE, ghouls are effective because they have to deal with those peasant hp archers, and they have perfect damage vs them.
Also ghouls are good against other UD, and against OC because like I said they have much more damage compared to the grunt (even if he has perfect damage vs fiends) and DK counts alot.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Harris.On.Rento

So.. do you think upgrades are worth of money? and which upgrades are better, attack or armor?

I personally make armor ups cos i think armor is more important than damage and i think like 2 armor for fiends is better than 5 damage...

Dude, all upgrades are important. The damage increments depend on the dice and sides per dice that the unit contains. Having the armor upgrades is important to, especially when you try to go hunts vs most forms of piercing.

[TheoStormhawk]

You are right about the upgrades theory, but don't say about hunt man , no matter how much I upgrade them, I still get the impression that they don't stand a chance against piercing.

[Emperor Pan I]

Huntress can take on tier 1 ranged at tier 1. When you start getting into casters and tier 3, no amount of upgrades can save the huntress.