Power of The Horde...

[DwightSchrute]

Could the original horde(wc1, wc2 prior to split up) have been stopped by the undead? night elves? assuming of course that gul'dan did not defect

[Ninja_Blue]

The horde would rape them in their *******s, considering the weaker horde defeated the undead with the help of injured allies.

[Emperor Pan I]

The Horde had the power of the burning Legion, and the Death knights themselves who are part of the Undead now were part of the Horde. IF Gul'Dan had not defected to search for the Tomb of Sargeras, the Horde would have wiped out the Humans in lordaeran, and the burning legion would have raped Azeroth.

The Undead are strong, but they are not nearly as powerful as the Orcs.

[Chris]

That depends though. In Wc2, it follows the Human campaign storyline, where the Humans hold off the Orcs (thanks to Kahdgar). Too bad Lothar dies really retarded in that campaign .

However, on the Orc side, you can turn the tides by eventually leading to the eradication of Lordaeron Castle.
And the Blackrock Orcs kill Gul'dan and the Stormreaver clan themselves for ditching them in the hour of need.

In Wc3 FT, Gul'dan was actually killed by demons. But a civil war between Stormreaver, Blackrock and Twilight Hammer took place in its steed.

[Emperor Pan I]

Originally Posted by Chris

That depends though. In Wc2, it follows the Human campaign storyline. However, on the Orc side, you can turn the tides by eventually leading to the eradication of tLordaeron Castle.

By all accounts if Gul'Dan hadn't betrayed Doomhammer, and taken a good deal of the ORcs power with him, Both sides knew that any attack on Lordaeran would have given Orcs a brutal victory, aided in no small part by the fact the ORcs had already sacked Qul'Thalas and Khaz Modan (if I got the Elf and Dwarf city names wrong, sue me for not remembering a champaign I played a decade ago).

Think about the Undead now, had to invade Lordaeran all sneaky and ****. The Humans fell apart in no small part simply because Arthas assassinated his father and dismantled any sort of authority. Lordaeran wasn't at war, and fell apart becuase it wasn't prepared. However the ORcs and Humans were at fullscale war, and the Humans still lost. Both Evil sides conquered lordaeran, However the way Orcs did it was the same reason they could take the undead.

And I say the Orcs conquered Lordaeran with the realization that they only lost because the Orcs fought with the Orcs, and gave the humans a small chance which they exploited. Also Remember the undead are ruled by Orcs. The simple fact is Ner'zul was an Orc, and he commands the Undead. The Liches were Orc warlocks. The Original Horde had the spells of the Undead, they had the Deathknights to. Orcs were clearly a stronger force.

[Chris]

Well they did have access to the powers of Archaic Sorcery, considering the powers of people like Gul'dan or the Death Knights. But don't forget the Orcs made a pact with the demons themselves, to form their more savage, demon worshiping brethren, compared to the shamanistic Frostwolf Clan (Thrall). That was how Grom became who he was before he died. Although he managed to control himself, there were still moments he would rush in and fight with pure rage. And that is also how they were able to use the Temple of the Damned to create Death Knights. Or possibly the Altar of Storms to enhance Ogres.

Also, take into consideration Lordaeron was the only real human power source left. Since Azeroth was pretty much shattered and was still rebuilding themselves. And as you said, they weren't prepared too well for the plague that was hitting thier lands. Nor the fact their King and the superpower nations such as Dalaran were going to be destroyed within days.

[DwightSchrute]

so basically: don't **** with the burning legion? seems like there are some serious ramifications coming assuming the legion can muster something up

[Ninja_Blue]

Actually, the Burning Legion got its ass handed to it on numerous occasions.

[DwightSchrute]

well sargeras isn't there to lead them properly...didn't the burning legion conquer countless worlds? the only reason they didn't conquer azeroth was because of the moonwell...right?

[Emperor Pan I]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Blue

Actually, the Burning Legion got its ass handed to it on numerous occasions.

First off, they were only defeated on Mount Hyjja, wherein A) Arthas and the majority of the Undead power was not there. B) Three Races combined including the Orc were there, C ) The demon dude (his name slips my mind) Who was the major command was killed by the Wisps, effectively removing any sort of structured order.

Originaly when they invaded they were NOT defeated. In fact, if the Well Hadn't collapsed, expelling all the demons form Azeroth, they would have raped (although they had already been doing that)

[Chris]

A) Arthas was defected from ARchimonde, he serves the Lich King and a majority of the Undead Scourge was left behind to secure Lordearon.

B) Mannoroth and Tichondrius were unexpectedly killed, the two right hand men of Archimonde.

C) Archimonde gets killed by a trap setup by the Night Elves at Mount Hyjal, with aid of the Humans and Orcs.

[Ninja_Blue]

What about the War of the Ancients?

[Emperor Pan I]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Blue

What about the War of the Ancients?

The Burning legion raped the Elves, and the Dragons were left almost completely inoperable when they were betrayed by Deathwing.

The only reason the Burning Legion didn't consume everything was the fact the WEll of Eternity collapsed, and locking the Legion out of Zeroth a it was.

[Chris]

But that came at a price. Since the Well of Eternity imploded. The Night Elves couldnt tap into demonic sorcery anymore, and those who were in the vicinity of the implosion became Naga warriors. The Night Elves eventually tapped into Geomancy (the school of natural forces) and the World Tree for thier powers, and used the beasts provided by Cenarius to create a different army. Illidan is the only Night Elf that practices demonic sorcery now.

[Theroy]

****ing nerds lol.

[Impact02]

Yes, storyline bs bs bs bs bs i dont give a f about any game's story.

[Chris]

Thats because the only thing you ever cared about was the ladder.

[Laharl]

Actually, the well gave access to arcane magic, not demonic magic. Big difference.

[Chris]

Yeah, and look what they did with it.

[Impact02]

Originally Posted by Chris

Thats because the only thing you ever cared about was the ladder.

Right. And because of that I prefer to play with those who kinda enter Bnet every day or two and play some solo instead of someone who enters once a month and plays god knows what. One kiddie from my clan was so eager to play AT 2v2 and when I changed my akk I would agree just to make the 1st icon fast. And he didn't show after making 0:3 thinking he was soo good to play random. He just screwed the AT and then did not come online. And I see he doesn't play any ladder, not even RT. For me such people are off the list... There are enough good gamers to play with from my clan and Theroy in Azeroth, and I don't care if he's drunk or not, at least I can see him online often. Besides, I'm still waiting to see who will win the 3rd game after 1:1 again. At least this is fun unlike Enfo, customs, stories or any crap of that kind. And fyi, I play a lot of private games, so it's not just ladder.