Discussion Group - solo/2on2 mapmaking

[Chris]

I just wanted to know:

If you could make any 1on1 or 2on2 map. What would it be like:

This includes things like:

1. Appearance
2. Tileset
3. Creep difficulty/theme
4. Item drops
5. Shop locations (like Roosts or Merc Camps or Goblin Labs)
6. Expo distance and difficulty to take them

And any other important things. I am starting to make one but I need a general consenus before I can make a map that many can agree on.

I may have already started to gather information from Spy, but it would be beneficial to get more opinions.

[x42bn6]

Not too bothered about appearance - just as long as it has some effort behind it.

Again, tilesets are not really a bother for me.

Creep difficulty should be moderate, but with options to crank it up or down to make it newcomer-sensible. DotA has a mild learning curve - see Stygian Desolator.

Item drops should be moderate, too. Nothing too hard (makes way for item-stealing), but nothing too stupid.

Shop locations should be fairly open - but be backstab points too.

The base should always be easy to reach, or at least have "mini-bases" scattered around the map. Basically, the map size Small is the most viable option for one base.*

[Chris]

The only reason DotA is a learning curve is that fools don't usually read the fine print or know forehand the engine. If they did, they probably wouldnt do stupid things like equip S/Y on Luna or Deso on Drow.

My first melee map will be aimed towards the moderate-elite players. However, I need it tested on many grounds before I can apply it to the Map submission on Blizzard.

[simpleforce]

Appearance - professional, strategic, maybe some river to go over and get a expo/red creep
Tileset - the good old green stuff
Creep difficulty/theme - all levels, not too many greens, they waste item space after lvl 3.
Item drops - blizzard like
Shop locations - all types, 2 goblin labs and 2 low lvl shop mainly.
Expo - not too close but not in dead midpoint b/t the players, so that you could defend your expo better than they can attack it.

[None293823]

Oh so you are trying it for map submission to Blizzard? I want to remind you, use the bnet maps for best example, keep the SUM of the levels of the creeps in an orange/green/red spot the same as in the bnet maps like if in tm the gnollws' sum of levels is 3+3 +5 = 11, make your orange spot near the base the same 11, for a further orange spot like the middle of the map, the sum of the levels like the trolls at the shop in tm, like closer orange can be easier, further orange can be more difficult. I RLY should stop making so long posts. Just check Twisted, Turtle, Lost (roc), Secret Valley, Treasure Island, Pludner Isle, Tirisfal ? oO, Terenas, Echo Isles, Gnoll wood.

Since my Winter tiwsted meadows located in Map development section page 3 of the downloads thread failed to become a serious 1vs1/2v2 map, although i tried itneresting things such as custom models and random creeps, maybe you can do a successful one if you dont use custom models or random creeps.

I like SNOW terrain very much , thats why my Futuristic City is icecrown terrain wqith snow weather and so was winter TM. However, do you notice that the most liked maps are the Summer maps because of their creeps? Gnolls, ogres, not skeletons and nerubians or permanent immolation creeps like in Outland. Yes thats why they are preferred.

My offer is: either continue it with a snowy terrain and creeps (errm what if Blizzard dont like ogres on snow ? If this isnt their land then they might dislike the map)? Thats why a better offer: Instead of Summer use barrens or Ashenvale yeah, or Lordaeron winter that still has snow and ogres.

Dont forget the buildable area all in the main locations

[Chris]

For creep themes, I have decided to use the following: Golems, Wizards, and Troll Priests.

A good combination of power, range, magic and challenge. Especially with the red creeps at the compass directions consisting of at least either a Granite Golem (level 9) or a Dark Wizard (level 8)

If the terrian allows me, I may use Ahsenvale. If not, I will use Lorderon.

Also, what do you guys feel about the Wells. I wanted to include at least 1 Heal and/or mana fountain. But it will be guarded by hi Yellow or Red.

Originally Posted by TS

maybe you can do a successful one if you dont use custom models or random creeps.

Rice Fields was the first to do this. It had a random theme at each location. But it wasn't a very good map, considering it was 3on3.

I will start drawing out a basic skematic for it, then start coding it. I will host screens as I build it for opinions.

[None293823]

You can even go advanced and use custom tileset if you think will suit it.

If you make a well, make it ranodom and yes not where a blade master can creep alone like in Maelstrom or LT or old EI. Red creeps. When it is ready i would gladly use it when hosting a custom game to play on smth diff than the usual maps. Oh that reminds me i havent played Malestrom for very long time!

[Chris]

Lost Temple ROC he can't creep alone. The only reason he is able to heal is because the Gnolls are so clumped towards the mine. The only possible method otherwise is lure out and kill the weaker gnolls outside the wells.

[None293823]

On lt bm creeps the center with 3 grunts... On Maelstrom too

[Chris]

Now that you think about it. All you have to do is kill the Assassins and Wardens with the Grunts. Then the Overseers fall like flies.

I haven't seen Maelstrom in some time.

Bandit Ridge also has an easy to conquer well, but its magic.

[None293823]

Bandit ridge was crappy i hated it. Now i decide which i hate more tirisfal or moonglade? Unfortunatly im used to tirisfal, i dont play other stupid maps liek Wetlands. I wish i could remove tirisfal too.

[Chris]

Wetlands is just lame beyond reproach. I used to setup burrows and buildings at cliff door, most of them didn't really bother coming in.

Bandit ridge probably had one of the easiest wells to take.

[None293823]

I once lost to 16:0 elf on tirisfal who only used ensanre from creeps. Awesome strat, i decided to learn it vs fiends and orc. The same happened on tstand earlier than 1.20e. I played elf 4fun and another elf mass ensnared. Now i wanted to learn the strat in ts but i realized the creeps were lordaeron summer! Not ensnaring murguls. Then i saw that this change was in 1.20e, 1.20e turned out to be as important as 1.21 with the no ls. No ensanre makes ts just perfect.

[Chris]

There is another map in the 2v2 lineup which I found a bit crappy. There were 4 Mana fountains (one near each base), and they are protected by Skeletal Orcs. However, the idiot put the orcs BEHIND the fountain. This can make harassing and running distance very cheap and short.

Luckily its not a solo map.