P/Z Defense

[Bomba923]

Although probably a strange question, but which is better at defense: Protoss or Zerg?
(well, I mean) Is protoss better at defense than zerg
or is zerg better at defense than protoss?

[Darkmatter]

I think that in general Protoss have a better defensive stance then Zerg does. As far as builds go, anyways. A sunken doesn't do 40 points of damage, maybe something like 25 or 30. A photon cannon fires faster and has a greater range, not to mention is a detector and can attack air. Although it costs more, it does more. Although it does have less life, when put ni groups it quickly makes up for it with superior range. If you are talking about defence in general, or building-wise?

[DeadLocked]

That can't be said correctly. Sunken/Spores, have are alot stronger, and the range is pretty much the same with cannons. If you take 5 sunken, 1 spire, and 6 cannons, and attack them with the same units. I'll bet you that the sunken will come out alot better. Plus the sunken can completely reheal themselves. :-) I've been able to kill 3 lots with two sunken, and only lose about 20 health from one. It's all about positionning of them. With sunken, a big clump isn't always best, since you don't need to be chained to a pylon. Personally i think zerg D's better. Cannons are n00bish.

[Darkmatter]

Maybe so, but a range of 7 beats a range of 6, or 5, whichever Sunkens have. Since Sukens would do full damage to a 200 total hp/shielded cannon, of course they would easily win. But against units, it s alot different, since the damage is reduced. (Sukens do 40 damage yet don't kill marines in one hit when they have full life, for example.) A photon cannon could kill a marine faster then a sunken can, I'd say. Faster attack rate, plus more range.

[Phoenix2003]

Louis, how are cannons noobish, but sunkens not?

[DeadLocked]

We'll have to test it. I never said sunken/cannons, i said the same amount of each, against the same amount of units. Personnally i prefer sunken. :-) Zerg pwns.

[Darkmatter]

Alright then, we shall.

Sunkens will win vs cannons though, if they fight eachother, but thats a given. (More damage to buildings and more HP.)

[Ntrik_]

I like toss better personally, ultimate defence for them:
cannons,
High templars
reavers
arbitars for cloakage
and carriers if needed
and dragons/cosair for AA.

w00t

[Zerglite]

Zerg, has to be

ive held off a guy with over 30 hatcheries when i unfortunatly played a Fastest map back in the day

i had only 7 hatcheries

but my lurkers kept him away, so did my mass amnts of Scourges

[DeadLocked]

Me and Dark were talking about just defense units, like sunken/spores/cannons not units.

[Zerglite]

but buildings arent as effective as units can be..

and then terran are ****ed if ur not talking about units, what would they put in those bunkers?

[DeadLocked]

Did you even read the topic or the 1st thread in this topic?

[Ntrik_]

whats a defence in the game without unit? That would make terran just vulnerable to any races, pfft bunks, they cant attack wihtout marines!

[DeadLocked]

Your both noobs. He wasn't even talking about terran at all. He was wondering abouT Protoss and Zerg. -shakes his head- Noobs! I swear!.

[Ntrik_]

Originally Posted by -Louis-

Your both noobs. He wasn't even talking about terran at all. He was wondering abouT Protoss and Zerg. -shakes his head- Noobs! I swear!.

Look at you, English is my second language, and I can still see grammar errors in your post, shame on you Louis *shakes head*


Anyways, you cant really talk about each race's defense only with their defensive buildings.

[DeadLocked]

I don't see why you -can't-, sure looked like we were earlier. :smile Nor do I truly care about my grammar, spelling, punctuation, and/or whatever else you can find wrong with my posts. :-)

[betaalpha5]

i say the protoss have a better defence. if you are on a hill you have the cannons to attack, zeal to protect the entrance, a few reavers behind to blow anybody up and if things start to get bad there is always malstrom and storm. dt could be in front and stop ppl since they are always cloaked. corsairs to web ground units to slow them down.
that's my 2 cents.


zerg i can also see the advantage, on hill lings would just stop people with hydras in the back. mutas with their chain effect would hit quite a bit of ppl. there is swarm to protect and pplague and ensare would doa lot of damage. add broodling effect tp kill any tanks that tries to blow things up. o and lurkers.

[AZN_FLEA]

zerg isnt designed for defence. they are desgined for mass unit and offensive. protoss is designed for heavy power

[Master.America]

Lurkers are primarily used as defense as opposed to reavers. Most often, anyone who gets reavers is planning to drop and finish off his opponent quickly; it's not often that you'll see someone leave a couple reavers at his entrance to guard his photon cannons with. In fact, most Protoss players are probably more likely to leave a couple high templar at their entrance as defense rather than reavers. Lurkers, on the other hand, are most often seen reinforcing sunken colonies; the beauty of it is that they make an excellent pair. With a couple spore colonies around, a Zerg player would have a truly fortified defense. When accompanied by other units, Zerg's defense is far more effective.

Standalone (meaning without other units, not just a single building), photon cannons are more deadly. Their rate of attack gives them the ability to do more damage than the colonies. Although sunkens and spores have more armor, they do less damage over the same amount of time than cannons do. I might be mistaken, but... don't sunken colonies only do full damage to buildings? Also, take into account the fact that photon cannon shields can be upgraded and they regenerate much faster than the colonies do.

Price-wise, photon cannons are still more efficient. While I am an advocate of the Zerg race, I gotta say their defensive buildings are expensive; it takes the price of the drone (50 minerals), plus the cost of its labor (it doesn't go back to work), plus the 75 minerals to morph it into a creep colony and 50 more minerals to morph it into a sunken or spore colony. That's 175 minerals per building, not counting for the amount lost due to the loss of the drone. Photon cannons cost 150 minerals, and the probe can continue working immediately after building the cannon--in fact, you can even use waypoints (shift + click on minerals after ordering the probe to build the photon cannon) to get it back to work as fast as possible.

[Crimson-Shade]

defensive buildings aside, the real winner in a defense match comes down to whether a defiler or a high templars is a better defensive spellcaster.

defiler's dark swarm is advantageous when the other person attacks with ranged units (dark swarm over ranged d) but not good if the other person employs mass melee along with ranged units. plague takes time to work, but over the long-run, it almost always means instant death for whatever unit gets hit with it (except protoss w/ their shields, but almost the same, carriers are toast with two scourges)

high templars on the other hand can use that hallucination as extra cannon fodder on like an archon to soak up damage away from your defensive units and cannons. also, the storm ability is a major advantage for a defensive toss player as the attacking side can only run away from his attack (ur best bet but now ur opponent knows what u have and can prepare adequately), move towards his enemy's d (not a good idea, probably just faster death for the attacking army), or move sideways (ur still gunna get hit and ur wasting your unit's hp on moving around instead of attacking). staying underneath the storm is just bad all around.

each spell caster individually are about equal in HP although the defiler does have an advantage of being able to burrow and can maneurver around faster than the high templar.

personally, i vote for protoss as having the better d... although i love plague cast by the defiler too

and my thought on sunkens vs cannons is that i just cant stand sunkens with their ambigious damage and only being able to attack ground units. cannons are superior to sunkens and spore colonies unless ur on an island map, otherwise then spore colonies are better anti-air than cannons (takes two yamato per spore and takes time to kill off each spore colony using carriers)