P~I play too defensively.

[exobyte]

I always play defensively with Protoss because I don't want to lose any of my units. I never do an early rush, I get 16-20 Dragoons and have them defend my expansions, and my offensive strategy is getting an Arbiter, freezing some of my enemy's units and warping near the ones unfrozen.

Any holes in this strategy that I should pay attention to? There are probably lots, I usually don't play with Protoss.

[Phoenix2003]

Originally posted by exobyte
I always play defensively with Protoss because I don't want to lose any of my units. I never do an early rush, I get 16-20 Dragoons and have them defend my expansions, and my offensive strategy is getting an Arbiter, freezing some of my enemy's units and warping near the ones unfrozen.

Any holes in this strategy that I should pay attention to? There are probably lots, I usually don't play with Protoss.

Don't play defensively.

If it's pvt, tech to dragoons and observers fast. Send the observer to terran's main and react accordingly. Eventually switch to speedlot/goon production. Shuttles help ALOT in this matchup whether for defending your cliff(on say..... Lost Temple) or zealot bomb(dropping a zeal or 2 per tank) Since you'll have excess of gas teching to temps/arbiters is fine. Just remember to keep obs in and around the terran base so you can see how many facs he has and how many units he's throwing at you and counter it. Out resource him and use flanks and this matchup is a piece-a-cake.

I'm assuming you mean pvt since you mentioned arbs.

Here's a replay of how you go about the matchup.(one of many ways)

One of my fav arbiter replays.

[Vaxxination]

well u dont have to play defensively with just units there is such a thing as a defense building (photon cannon), just build lot of those and just get some air incase they have guardians other than that u should have enough defense to be abel to run ur units back to your base to defend, so use units on offense (its good to keep some in ur base around the middle where u can hardly fit photons...

[Renzokuken]

Yes, get photons, but not as many as you suggest. I just scatter a few here & there so i don't need to waste gas on too many Observers, and it saves food.

In any MU, Protoss' offense is there defense. I find that my pace in-game begins to slow down after 10 minutes and my resources go up too much and i never have enough Stargates/Robo Facs/Gateways to pump out units at a reasonable rate. That seems to be my flaw. It's just a bad habit.

[Zera]

first, build up 500 photon cannons. DO NOT SCOUT. you need every single second and every single probe. then get carriers. scout with them. then get reavers.



just kidding.

it depends what races tou are against to go defensively. if your going against zerg, you MUST play offensively, cut off their expansions, try to get a higher scale of recources, etc.

when playing against terran, it depends what strats you are going. if you want to wait for the terran to contain you, you could use a defensive strategy, such as blue goon, or setting up goons in different areas of the map for flankings, setting up shuttles filled with zlots in different areas of the map, etc.

[amrtin77]

never let terran contain you... such a bitch to get out of. and you dont want to get into a pissing contest in the middle of the field against tanks backed by vults with mines... and if you got air, expect he knows (comsat) and he'll have goliaths.

if the terran forgets to get turrets, or just doesnt have many SOMETIMES a fun thing to do it get a few dark templar, 3 or 4.. put em in a dropship and land near theyre minreals.. hurry up and knock out the comsat and if theres no turrets nearby take their money from them .if there are turrets it depends on how close his forces are, and how many turrets. you may be able to take out all his sight in the area before he can react.

but the biggest thing is dont let a terran outexpand you.. its so hard to climb a ramp that has tanks and mines and vults on it.. carriers are too cost inneffective, so i usually play a dropship game.dropping a reaver or a templar to quickly kill a few miners is a sexy annoyign tactic. really, just dont let them expand, keep aggresssive, keep leading dropship raids, keep the terran turtled. dont let him expand. observers are nice for this. if a terran outexpands you your over. theyre ground forces are too hard to take on in the field... unless you wait till theyre tanks are on the move and jump them while theyre not seiged. that means mines dont help them and they have no range on you. but taking on a settled terran ground force is too tough. go around, hit theyre money, attack when they unseige to move.

even if a terran force gets up to your ramp and seiges its tough to stop them.... if theyre this close theyve got YOU contained and you should use the altitude to your advantage... storm them from above with templar, do what you can, and if you have another expansion use them to attack from the rear.

your best bet is to keep them in their base and if they try to move out jump them while theyre not ready.

[Phoenix2003]

WTF are u saying? carrs are cost-ineffective? Maybe you suck? It's actually quite the contrary. Maybe you need to understand the game better before making such stupid remarks. k?

[amrtin77]

what? carriers are cost efficient? no way. you have 2-3 carriers, and thats ok with the right support and if you cliff them... but carriers are such a waste of time, they require a lot of teching while you could be building more effective unite (templar, dropships, reavers, zealots, dragoons)

carriers suck. VERY easy to kill, slow as blimps, and you need a good size air force to defend them. then if theres a bunker or a few goliaths even those 3 carriers that cose a shitload of money are gonna have a bunch of dead interceptors. theres no way that you can argue that carriers are cost efficient and still have the balls to call me a moron.



and what bout the rest of my post? you call me a moron and dont explain yourself, then you simply ignore everything else i said. explain yourself or be forever branded an idiot in my eyes -.-

[Phoenix2003]

I didn't call you a moronin my previous post, moron(now I just did).

Secondly, there's nothing wrong at all going for carrs late game. And yes, they are definitely one of the most cost-effective ways to beat terran. There counters really suck. Most of them are a joke. The only thing they have that even threatens carriers are wraiths, but just a handful of sairs takes care of that quick fast and in a hurry.

Thridly, get your head out of your ass and learn to play better before making such idiotic statements when I have a bunch replays(pvts) that will prove you wrong so STFU.

[amrtin77]

no, carriers cant do anything unless you have alot of them.. and thats a waste of money. if you have a few marines in a bunker, or a few goliaths, or a turret or two sitting on the cliff your seiging with carriers a few carriers wont do it. well, eventually it will. but it takes so long because after you take out one turret all of your interceptors are dead. the fact that itll take you a good half hour to break down one hillside with a few carriers is reason enougrh for me not to use them. id MUCH rather use a few cheap sairs to disription web and fly in an attack force through dropships. carriers dont do the damage you need unless you have alot, and alot costs too much money when you could have a MUCH easier time dropping in troops to fight, or if there is tanks or anything on a cliff you want to weaken you can make a psi storm work, even if you have an altitude disadvantage. you send in like 2 zealots and right behind them the templar, the zealots get hit by all the tanks and the temp storms before they reload and kill him. there is many ways to drop in on 6our enemies instead of carriering them.


carriers are VERY expensive, and it takes too many of them to do any real damage. unless your willing to spend a half hour getting over one cliff i dont reccommend carriers. unless your on a money map...


and their counters are anything that can shoot in the air -.- theyre easy as hell to kill. if you cliff nothing can hit them if you have defense true, but theyre interceptors WILL die off before they do any real damage unless you have like 5+ carriers.

[Phoenix2003]

*sigh* I guess I have to shut you up now.

Does this map look like a ****ing money map to you, moron?

And this is only one example.

[amrtin77]

hold on ill watch it


ok, i like how he did the hit and run to all of the terrans expos. but the reason the first three carriers won was because the terrran player refused to stray from his tanks. if i was him id have actually went to kill the interecptors just to keep the carriers out of buisness for about a minute.

and when he got 6 carriers yes, i know alot of carriers can rape, but i still dont think its cost effective. more than 5 carriers is when it gets too pricy for me.. and less than 5 i usually pretty easy to stop. so i just dont use them.


id rather spend a few hundred on some dropships and use the gas for templar then do my best to fight the terran than way, storm his main force by using a few zlots as seige bait, or ignore the main force until its on the move and drop and harrass his expos. when and if his army moves to counter into your base, or to defend, hit them while theyre unseiged. only real way to beat a good terran land force.


if the terran had scouted and seen the carriers coming he could have taken them out with a few wraiths, or maybe just let his goliaths rape the interceptors time and time again instead of chasing the carriers by foot getting seiged the whole way...

[Phoenix2003]

The terran DID scout toss and got gols pretty early. WTF are u talking about?

Goliaths suck at killing interceptors. Now you're just talking out of your ass as usual. So you think you can beat ZeloTITO when his opponent is say 5x better than YOU,huh? You're a bigger dumbass than I thought.

If you don't like using carrs then don't use them but they certainly don't suck. If anything they win TOO many pvts such that the mu has delved into "Stall until you can afford carriers"
.
I think ZeloTITO would pound you into the ground if you tried what you said you would try.

How bout a one-on-one on Sin Gaema Gowon to prove your so-called theory? Check the battle.net account thread or mine.

You really, really NEED to STFU about something even you seriously don't understand. k?

[amrtin77]

ill 1v1 you anytime, i never claimed to be the best starcraft player and your exploding over a video game. chill out and stop taking it so seriously. so i think carriers suck. whats it matter to you?

theyre easy to kill, and you have to have too much air to defend them. i think dropping is cheaper and quicker than "waiting till you can afford carriers"

id rather end the game before the whole map is expoed out... dont even try tellign me carriers are cheap.

[Phoenix2003]

Your statements implied that YOU can beat ZeloTITO considering that Androide wasn't able to. Prove it. When I said carrs are cost-effective, I didn't mean they were cheap per say, moron. By late game, toss can afford to gather a fleet of those and out-micro even 3x as many goliaths as they are carriers. This dialogue between us was definitely beyond your understanding. Either STFU and stop making stupid comments or put up.

[amrtin77]

no not beyond my understanding. im simply oging to resist you no matter what if you keep acting like an asshole. i dont care if im wrong really, your making it personal. and thats pretty sad bnecause this is an online forum.

[Phoenix2003]

You're the acting like the asshole. You just refuse to listen. Oh well. Morons will be morons, I guess.

[amrtin77]

i havent called you a name yet.... your acting like an ass. if you hate me take it out of this thread and too the asylum. youve proved your point, its possible to use carriers effectively late game.

[Phoenix2003]

You're the one being stubborn like a bitch and "I'm" acting like an ass?? Okkkk? The sad thing about you and your foolish comments earlier is that this thread wasn't even about carriers, you stupid ****. It was about pvt in general which happens to be about endgame carrs for the most part. And we were having an awfully fine discussion about it until you provoked me into an argument with your untrue statment. Oh yeah, this thread wasn't about what YOU thought of carrs, either. Ok, dipshit?

[RyanXWing]

Phoenix, you are being an ass, and I too think carriers are not cost efficent, all you need is cloaked wraiths, a science vessal and a few goliaths usally. attack the carriers with your gols, emp them while they are distracted by the gols then send in the wraiths to finish them.

And for protoss vs terran, though I am not a 1337 toss player, I would think zealots, goons and templars would be useful most of the game, just have to maintain an anti air force. Lots for the tanks. Goons for support when lots are fighting other ground inits, and storm to fend off cloaked wraiths and other annoyances