Good Strat vs Zerg Mutas/Guards

[coRtALoS]

PLEASE NO ONE POST IN HERE WITH SOME ANSWER THAT'S ONE OR TWO SENTENCES LONG!!! I'm looking for real solutions and strategies to counter this tactic.

I've been pretty rusty lately with my ran strats, however I was playing someone on LT for 6 today, who kept getting mass mutas and guards. This was on SC original, so I didn't have the advantage of meds.

Anyway, mutas are 50 minerals less than wraiths, and despite their cloaking ability, my opponent was actually smart enough to send overlords with his attacks. (I usually get hooked up with newb opponents).

Anyway, my question is what would be the best strategy vs mass mutas/guards. He could pump them out pretty fast, and I suppose the best bet would have been attacking his weaker expos, then getting his main base, using 'War of Attrition' tactics. Unfortunately, as stated above, I'm pretty rusty on my ran tactics. Any suggestions anyone?

*looks to aka-47*

[Darude]

Always use science vessels when combating skilled zerg players. Especially those who specialise in air.

Irradiate + goliaths on SC own zerg air. Thats what you've got to aim for.

[AKA-47]

The disadvantage terran has when facing air units on sc original is the fact that golls dont have range, so that wont work. U also dont have medics, so if a zerg player uses mutas+lings on sc original there is actually nothing a terran player can do except pray. Mutas + guards isn't that overpowered tho, since that would mean only mutas until he gets a hive, so marines would probarbly be the best option. Get some vessels with irradiate (as many as u can afford, 10 vessels = dead army of muta/guard) and u should be able to take them down. If he has no lings or hydras and it isn't an island map than it shouldn't be too hard to beat. Unlike in bw, try not to stim every time u see mutas in ur base, he will just run away and drain ur rines life.

[TrongaMonga]

and something good that u can do, in spite spending some money and having the risk of not working, would be nuking them

if it works, they would have spent much more money than u

another thing, if u want, try to use wraiths, and then, instead of irradiating their units, irradiate ur wraiths or ur vessels and go to the middle of them. that way, the irradiate effect wouldnt stop after the unit u irradiate dies, and he couldnt take it back to die on another side.

[coRtALoS]

Well, unfortunately he was a good Zerg player. He spaced his mutas out, but hotkeyed them so he came from a few directions. Irradiate worked, but he was quick to either kill the irradiated units, or send them away from the rest of his guys... usually sending them over my marines.

Yeah, I think the guy was just too good for me too soon. I should practice a little more with friends before trying to play random people

This guy might have been maphacking, however that's unsure as well. He always seemed to know where my dropships with Ghosts were going when I was trying to nuke.

[TrongaMonga]

both that situation happens: or he is good, or he hacks, or, wierdly, both

well, the best thing u can do is then train a lot. I would even train with u if my cd wasnt ****ed up... need to get a copy lol

it even seems that someone was there with a knife risking it

[Chris]

The muta/guardian force is quite common especially in the scenarios themselves. Since they are air, you will need to remember your countering capabilities (like Marines are killed by Firebats and Vultures easily.). So, build a force of valkyre frigates and upgrade their attack to lvl 2-3 (since the Guardians have like 2 armor the missiles may not have much of an effect.) The missiles do splash damage so the monsters will be easily shot down like flies. Be warned that they should be built ahead of time and the armor should be able to hold off a muta attack (since they do 9 and a valk has 200 hp it doesn't mean u can slack off.)
Or simply cloak wraiths can blast them with Geminis but they may have an overlord and a wriath is horrible against an army of mutas and their splash damage. Another method is to gas them with Science Vessels and use valk/wraith army to blast them. Bcs do good too but they are too much to repair if it isn't a money map!

[TrongaMonga]

Hmm dude, this is a very very old thread. It even is from the time that I talked like shit.

Anyway, he mentioned Original. Valks are from BW.

[FZ. | gOsu]

if you read above, you wouldnt have posted that i dont think...he said he only has original!

Normally when i play with terran and they go air...I get a shit load of bunkers around my base, it may be newbm but it works for me, dont put them on the edge, so that gaurdiens can hit em without getting close...put them inland a lil and when they try to take em out with muta, muta die, when he tries to use the range of the gaurdien, bring in some golos to take him out, or irradiate...

if you dont want to use that one, attack him early with tank pushes, and dont let him upgrade to lair, or greater spire...just try to keep him down by scanning and doing some puny marine drops to keep him on his toes...

scan alot! whenever you can, find his expos and keep him from finsishing his hatcheries by attacking with either tanks on cliffs or dop some units in the heart, but watch for burrowed units or anything close by to stop you.

going all muta and guardien takes alot of gas, so if you want to keep him from getting themn, keep down him gas production by expanding yourself, and attacking his expos like i said above.

what i do, find where he is, make two dropships, 3 tanks, 2 scv's and i tihnk its something like 2 rines...drop them near his base...and siege the tanks, make 2-4 turets around your tanks and maybe a bunker for the rines and make it so he cant expand until he gets past your lil barrakade...if he starts to destroy your tanks, repair them. if he starts to break your blockade completely, send more units to back you up, and then slowely but shurely push into the heart of his base, attack from behind with wraiths, tank him in the front and drop some rines and bats into the main hatch to **** over his economy, but make sure to heal your tanks and to keep pumping units as you attack, micro like crazy and dont EVER let your guard down fromthe D of your base..

with that said, i tihnk you can beat him, hopefully

did that ehlp at all?

as for the he might be maphacking park...save a replay of when you palyed him, see if he knows where you are going all the time, and if he is send it to blizzard and see what they say to it...saving the replay can also help you if he does the same, or close to the same thingh every time, you can see where he is weak, what he makes first, and if he waits, and doesnt have units until later in the game and goes straight for muts...kill him fast, rine rush him unless he gets sunkens, then tank push him to death..

[CuteGuyNo.1]

i'll short summazie this,
rine with ups vs muta, use wraith vs gaurds. if he lins use fb, rine and fb does own muta ling no matter if u have med or not because of thier fast attack rate it can match up vs muta ling, but if they have lings over muta ratio, try to use scv in ur battle

[Biske]

I guess that's the best way to look at it. Rines with Stim will tear thru a pack of Mutas easily, but then you'll obviously need some air support to keep them Gaurds busy will you do your thing.

When i was confronted with this situation, it was Late Game, in fact it turned out to be the final battle that lasted 15 minutes. He spent all of his recources on getting his air force ready, while I was planning to go mass BCs. So when he attacked, I had a large Air Force of my own, lol! Talk about a costly battle. From there on out, we fought with Rines and Lings, cuz him and me both were out of money! What finally won the game was me going from each of his expansions and fighting tooth and nail for everyone, and capturing it, which gave me the eventual GG!

[ReiGn]

Use goliaths,marines and wraiths.that should tear those mutas/guardians apart

[Biske]

Goliaths would get owned by Guards without all the upgrades. But it wouldn't hurt to have a few in there! o.0

[Chris]

Anything GROUND will get slaughtered by Guardians. Its air all the way but Carriers will take too long to slay them since they like attack all on one guy at a time. Plus you may have to worry bout scourges flying into your face and blowing up your good air units. But who exactly would use them, its like building vultures.

And Goliath rockets is halved - the armor on Guardians

[FZ. | gOsu]

Originally posted by ReiGn
Use goliaths,marines and wraiths.that should tear those mutas/guardians apart

didnt he ask for no 1 sentece answers?? gggeeesseeee

ok, golos suck for taking out guardiens...nuff said...

i still say that keeping there gas down is the best way to go...

im not sure it i said it above...in my earlier post...because im quote posting right now and im to lazy to go look...but irradiate works if you irradiate enough units...even if they fly away...theyll still lose that unit, and hurt some more in the process whcih will help you destroy there army in the long run

[ReiGn]

sorry.
Golies don't suck against guards.golies can rip apart any air unit with it's 32 air damage.

and the goliath has explosive air dmg.it will do full damage guards

[xero2]

I have faced someone like this before. In my expierence the easyest way to beat em is to have about 10 cloaked wraiths, about 5 bcs and a few goliaths. Take out the mutas with the wraiths use goliaths to help if the enemy has detection. and after you get rid of the mutas take the bcs and whatever other units u have left and go for the guards....Use some gorund units to keep em in place in case they are heading for your base. If you do this right you should come out on top...

[FZ. | gOsu]

but guards have the range, and if there is more than just one...a golo dies in like 4 hits...so they dont do much before they die unless you mass golos which is a very bad idea

[Chris]

Ummm dude its 7 or less. Besides the massing of gols will not protect yopu from the power of the aerial zerg. So use air to air combat to win the battle.

[FZ. | gOsu]

i would have to agree that air would be way more efective than ground...

hmm...missiles alone could take out all that if you have enough wraiths...and if they havemdetector..kill it first..


hmm...try to scv's em to death!