I cant beat protoss as zerg because of the freaking psystorm

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Vadriel

And Chris, if you don't have other ways of dealing with that sorta thing, then you're lacking in development. Like Lurker defense to turn advancing ground units into Swiss cheese. Sentry overlords floating around with a Zergling in them to deter Ghost launches. Guardians for retreating ground units.

Zerg works best as a complete hive, but I rarely ever build Queens. I'm just not good at using em. They usually end up getting chased around by Scouts or Wraiths until they finally croak...and I got what? One parasite out of the building cost and one larva wasted that could have been a Hydralisk?

But then, I'm really not very good at Zerg. Usually I build outrageous D on money maps and swarm 8 groups of Guardians, then do a holocaust. It takes a great player to survive 64 Guardians coming at their base from every angle, even if I lose half of them in the process...I'm always spawning a new batch at home base...

Honestly, I'm only a moderately decent player regardless. I prefer to do a 2h v 6c battle with a buddy on a moneymap...I'm really not much for pvp at all in just about any game I play.

What the hell are you talking about, lacking in development...... riiight. Ensare is good for revealing. But even if the Overlord sees the unit, what if it gets blinded, or the units are something like Dark Templar, and you want to slow thier advance? There is more to Starcraft than just massing units and attack moving into locations like moronic noobs do in 3on3 in Wc3.

You do realize that money maps are a fallacy within itself? They were designed by scrubs who wanted fast games and have zero care for mass BCs, Carriers or Guardians for cheap wins. And if they had done that in a melee map, thier resources would be exhausted to nothing and you would probably dead before then.

Slow movespeed in ANY RTS is bad. You can get picked off easily and you can't escape once you get attacked, unless you cloak, or pick up the unit in another unit like a shuttle.

And even if the Queen is going to get sacked by Scouts. They would need the movespeed upgrade to catch up to it. And if the player is retarded, they may fly thier air into anti air and regret it. Plus, no retard would use it on hydras or weak units. Spawn Broodlings was designed to pick off crucial targets like Siege Tanks, nuking Ghosts, Templar, **** like those.

[Vadriel]

I'm just saying, everything a Queen can counter can be done a different way with a more offensive angle. Sure, Brooding's nice for nuking strategic units, but its a highly specialized skill. Keep your Broodlingable units inside your defenses, or have some kind of AA around at all times, and it's GG Queenie.

Like I said...I'm not that good. I can usually survive in a 1v1 setting against a midrange player, but I'm a far cry from these Korean kids who make it a lifestyle. I'm sorry, I just can't get too deeply into a game to "master" it.

[B~E]

Originally Posted by Vadriel

I'm sorry, but most of the time I'm Toss, there are cannons at my ground choke points and goons at the borders anyways by the time I do HTs...if I EVER do HTs...so Queens generally don't get in unmolested unless they waste their valuable one-shot of Broodling on one of my goons. Anybody with half decent defense doesn't have to worry about Queens.

Thats not true, players only have the time and ressources to set up defences at the entrence of their bases, or near mineral patches. Those sort of static defences are easy to go around for a fast flying units with great vision and decent hit points.

In a map like lost temple, full of clifts, its extremly easy to use the terrain to cast broodlings or parasites from an unaccessible point.

[Vadriel]

I usually don't play maps like that, so I can't really give much strategic input. I'm not a very competitive PvP player...if I'm gonna do that I'll just do a 1v1 challenger.

Besides, when I play Protoss, I rarely use HTs at all, except maybe as Archon fodder. What would somebody waste a Queen on in my base? One of many dragoons?

[B~E]

Well yeah, in fastest maps, queens have little values, compared to other spellcasters. Thats for sure.

Originally Posted by Chris

Slow movespeed in ANY RTS is bad. You can get picked off easily and you can't escape once you get attacked, unless you cloak, or pick up the unit in another unit like a shuttle.

And even if the Queen is going to get sacked by Scouts. They would need the movespeed upgrade to catch up to it. And if the player is retarded, they may fly thier air into anti air and regret it. Plus, no retard would use it on hydras or weak units. Spawn Broodlings was designed to pick off crucial targets like Siege Tanks, nuking Ghosts, Templar, **** like those.

Well if my opponents goes for wraiths or scouts, I consider the game won already. A fleet of scouts that has been parasited, and that will be ensnared during a confrontation, will be no match for a few spore colonies or a bunch of upped hydras.

About your comment on the importance of speed, I think you're right. Thats why I'm always terrified of a zerg player who goes for muta and lings, while I go for hydras. Sure, my units are cheaper and more effective, but the sheer speed and manoeuvrability of the muta and the lings will make it extremly difficult to properly expend in the later stages of the game.

[Chris]

Especially worse if the lings get all speed upgrades and some of those Mutas are upgraded to guards or devourers behind your back. The other worst part is that Hydra attacks are cut in half vs lighter armored units like Zerglings. Zerg is all about the speed and cheap numbers. The only slow units for the Zerg are non upgraded Overlords and Lurkers.

[Renzokuken]

Originally Posted by Vadriel

I'm sorry, but most of the time I'm Toss, there are cannons at my ground choke points and goons at the borders anyways by the time I do HTs...if I EVER do HTs...so Queens generally don't get in unmolested unless they waste their valuable one-shot of Broodling on one of my goons. Anybody with half decent defense doesn't have to worry about Queens.

Whoa there buddy. Since when do Protoss turtle? With that kinda attitude you should play Terran. And besides, anybody half decent wouldn't sent one Queen into your base to one-shot some HT's, they'd use them while you're on the offensive or whenever your HT's are vulnerable.

And about you ever doing HT's, well, they ****ing rock. Use them.

[Vadriel]

I'm pretty bad at microing casters, my fingers don't punch the hotkeys very quickly. Sure, Psistorm is good but I prefer Archons to be brutally honest.

And a Protoss turtle with proper unit support is godly. I've withstood unbelievable assaults with minimum losses, then sent out my forces and annihilated their vulnerable base. Honestly, it's there own tough luck for leaving their base open while on the offensive, but that's something that never happens when you "turtle."

I like to be heavily defensive mid-game with Protoss because of the sheer versatility of Photon cannons. 150 minerals gets you a static dual anti-ground/anti air defense with detection abilities...so it has the downside of Shields being half its HP...they had to do that to balance that godly structure.

I mean, Look at Zerg. 50 minerals for a Drone, 75 for Creep Colony and then what 50 again for Spore/Sunken morph? 175 minerals for a sturdier building that only defends against either air or ground.

Terrans you have the cheap but frail Missile Turrets that give only AA, and a fully-loaded Bunker would cost 300 minerals for the same capabilities as a Photon Cannon...minus the detection.

Photon Cannons really are godly if you use them right, with the right support. Scouts or Zeals are good because they can usually walk through or fly over the lines of cannons to engage enemies attacking the front.

With nothing but a strategic cannon layout, I literally squashed a ground raid by Toss. About 8-10 Zealots and 4 Dragoons went toast when they tried to hit me, and I lost what? 1 cannon out of 8, and one other was damaged into yellow.

And that was WITHOUT Scout support. With it, not even Reavers, Guardians, or Siege Tanks can get through it, not without them being included in a full raid.

[B~E]

Yeah, I'd really like to test your strategy against you.

[Executor Keldain]

Vad, I'm quite disappointed... you have no skills. *Shanks Vad with his Warp Blade killing him instantly*

Oh and never listen to me when I tell you I'm a Templar...

Long live the Dark Templar!!! Death to the n00bs!

[Vadriel]

Meh, I'm just used to moneymaps, where literally nothing gets in my base...AND PvC, where the comps are lame-asses regardless of difficulty level.

Truth be told though, it's the only way to make it fun. I don't like gang wars, and if I do a 1v1 against anybody but a seriously experienced player, as nondefensive Toss...it's over too quick. I like long games, as opposed to filling my opponent's base with Zealots 10 minutes in.

But yeah, I never said I was all that good, just that I can get the job done against intermediate players.

And besides, Keldain...you assume too much...like that I'm even available to shank on the ground. I'd like to see a DT shank an Infested servant of the Hive that rides a Guardian into battle.

*Casts Ensnare on the spot where Keldain stands cloaked, revealing him. Guardian fires off a single shot and Keldain explodes in a cloud of acid spores.*

[Executor Keldain]

*Keldain activates his personal teleporter a split-second before the impact of the acid spores, reappearing behind Vadariel. "Surprise..." he said as he gracefully disemboweled the servant of the swarm.*

Don't mess with me Vad, I RP'ed in AOL's chat rooms for far too long.

Anyways, money maps are simply for the unskilled StarCraft player.

I make this assumption based on fact, if you would like to prove me wrong then I will meet you on the battlefield when StarCraft 2 is released.

[B~E]

Originally Posted by Vadriel

Truth be told though, it's the only way to make it fun. I don't like gang wars, and if I do a 1v1 against anybody but a seriously experienced player, as nondefensive Toss...it's over too quick. I like long games, as opposed to filling my opponent's base with Zealots 10 minutes in.

A game's lenght is determined by the equivalency of skills of the players. If one isnt too superior to the other, and if nobody do any stupid mistakes, then the game will be long. It had nothing to do with the sort of map.

But I aso play fastest maps.

[Executor Keldain]

B~E I might be tempted to rend your soul for playing fastest maps.

[B~E]

Fastest maps arent completly devoid of worth. By freeing the player from having to worry about the economics, he can now focus on other aspects that arent really available on conventional maps.

I tend to focus on conventional maps because I'm better at macrogestion (developing an economy, focusing on expending, outmanoeuvring my opponents) than microgestion. I'm terrible at microgestion actualy, thats why I cant play terran, or dont bother at all with tier-1 strategies.

[Renzokuken]

The only good fastest map was my Altered SC.

Seriously don't understand this defensive Protoss you speak of. Such a thing does not exist. A Protoss defense is their offense!

[Chris]

Photon Cannons are the easiest structures to destroy. They only have 200 HP total, and are powerless without Pylons.

Besides, if you manage to find your opponent fast, you may be able to make enough Zealots to punch thru his turtle. Once those defenses are down, he shouldnt be playing.

[Vadriel]

Originally Posted by Executor Keldain

*Keldain activates his personal teleporter a split-second before the impact of the acid spores, reappearing behind Vadariel. "Surprise..." he said as he gracefully disemboweled the servant of the swarm.*

Don't mess with me Vad, I RP'ed in AOL's chat rooms for far too long.

Anyways, money maps are simply for the unskilled StarCraft player.

I make this assumption based on fact, if you would like to prove me wrong then I will meet you on the battlefield when StarCraft 2 is released.

Meaning you depend on godmodding to win any fight. I may as well just use *DAWJD!* Templar don't carry around personal teleporters. It requires the focus of an Arbiter to even activate dimensional recall.

Back to the game discussion: this is all mostly just theorycrafting anyways...I never said I was all that skilled to begin with, I'm just pointing out a few points:

1) Protoss defense is better than people give it credit for, although it's true for any race that the best defense is a good offense, and Protoss units have the most raw power of the game.

2) The main uses of a Queen are basically moot, as any Zerg player worth his salt should be able to fulfill the roles of a Queen using a more versatile variety of other units that could be used for more diverse strategies.

[Executor Keldain]

There was no god mode involved, I had a phase prism nearby, I activated the personal teleporter so that it could home in on me quick enough to escape the spores.

Protoss zealot's armor comes standard with a personal teleporter designed to activate when the zealot has sustained critical damage.

I am carrying a modified personal teleporter.

[Vadriel]

Yeah, and my back has been genetically altered by Zerg technologies to be covered in thick scales that utilize bioelectric currents to disperse energy strikes against my carapace. Your warp blade loses its focus and desicates into a scattering of harmless energy when it hits my back, and a quick swipe from my wingblades decapitates you.

Two can play at the "endless adaptations" game.