My PvP Necro Guide

[c9h13no3]

It seriously needs to be re-written. I'm suprised you guys never took it down. Just looking at it, I can see it wouldn't be optimal for pubs, and maybe not even league dueling. Anyone care to re-write it? Or at least help me revise it?

[Nicholas The Slide]

i think its ok except for the part about bone spear...i find bone spear better in duels sometimes then spirit..i use it wen ppl run a lot. thats my only revision for ya

[Kao]

I can help, I guess. Inept says he quit, so now I have a Bone Necro to play with. I don't know of how much use I can be, because I think Nova > Bone.

[Jason]

I left it there because it was your guide, and I've looked up to you for strats. I don't use guides so I don't read the stuck ones..I guess I should start keeping an eye on things that need updated, but I just quit D2 so eventually I'll need help.

[WildfireFX]

i quit d2 6 monthes ago.. i started played 2 weeks ago

[c9h13no3]

Well the main thing that needs revision is things that apply to 1.10, gameplay things. The numbers I can compute fairly easily. I just need to know things like:

1) The value of meat shields on a teleporting necro. I could see how they could be useful against attacks like guided arrow, TS, and maybe FoH (I hear it doesn't auto-target anymore). However, they take time to obtain. And going out into the blood moor and getting some skellies///revives can be a pain. So for those few attacks, is it really worth the investment? And summons are rarely (if ever) allowed in league duels, for a variety of reasons. So is the 1 point in skellies really worth it? I'd have to actually play the game to find out, which I can't do because I've uninstalled D2, given my CD key to Galatia, and I've got no desire whatsoever to level a necro up to level 85ish with a brand new account.

2) The value of Oak Sage. To me, it seems like he'd die a lot, and most of your time would be spent recasting him. I don't have any dueling experiance with Oak Sage, because I didn't duel in 1.10, so I need some advice there.

3) What are the primary attacks people are using in PvP? I hear cold sorcs, bone necs, psn necs, various projectiles from amazons, Elemental Druids, and FoH pallies make up the majority of duelers. However, I don't really know. But if this is the case, only one of these duelers uses physical damage (amazons) so neglecting physical damage, and concentrating on high life, high resistances, high absorb might be a feasible strategy.

4) How much mana do you need? I know, personally, with my dueling style, I teleported A LOT. And with a level 1 teleport, that can eat a lot of mana. However, you can also buy mana potions now (are they considered bad manners in pubs?), so I'm not sure how they would affect game play.

5) As far as the poison nova vs. bone thing, I don't think there's any real reason to go with psn nova (then again, I've been out of the loop for a while). Nova is great for teleporters, but from what I hear, teeth can fill the gap for an area of effect attack. And lasty, with teleport of your own, it won't be as critical to have an anti-sorc attack like poison nova.

So I basically need those questions answered. That would help immensly.

[DDRaddict]

in no particular order:

well with 1 in teleport it seems like alot but with + to skills it'll be like lvl 14ish depending on how many + to skills u have.

elemental druids also use physical attacks. their tornadoes do physical and their elemental is used for stunning.

the 1 in skellies isn't really that big of a deal is it? just another few baal runs.

most people that i see don't even use the oak sage. it's like a forgotten skill. u can basically cast it for blocking a hit for u.

poison nova is crazy if they are good. your health will drop in like crazy depending on how much health.

[Kao]

I have t he Skellies, and i've lived when there is IBS all over the place, or a zon spamming guided, or a FoH pally that can't lock on to me. I would say yes, it's worth it, because it's only 2 points, and after your build (well, in my case- I only needed to max 4 skills), I had extra points to spare.

And Nova is probably the cheapest attack out there other than Blizzard + Bone Spirt. Why? 1 hp in a second, even vs fade assassins in hell really tends to break their hopes sometimes. They get mad and call me cheap because I have meat shields AND nova. Oh well though.

[djnat]

I play on Europe realm mainly (but very few in these days), I will try to help.

Originally Posted by c9h13no3

1) The value of meat shields on a teleporting necro. I could see how they could be useful against attacks like guided arrow, TS, and maybe FoH (I hear it doesn't auto-target anymore). However, they take time to obtain. And going out into the blood moor and getting some skellies///revives can be a pain. So for those few attacks, is it really worth the investment? And summons are rarely (if ever) allowed in league duels, for a variety of reasons. So is the 1 point in skellies really worth it?

2) The value of Oak Sage. To me, it seems like he'd die a lot, and most of your time would be spent recasting him. I don't have any dueling experiance with Oak Sage, because I didn't duel in 1.10, so I need some advice there.

3) What are the primary attacks people are using in PvP? I hear cold sorcs, bone necs, psn necs, various projectiles from amazons, Elemental Druids, and FoH pallies make up the majority of duelers. However, I don't really know. But if this is the case, only one of these duelers uses physical damage (amazons) so neglecting physical damage, and concentrating on high life, high resistances, high absorb might be a feasible strategy.

4) How much mana do you need? I know, personally, with my dueling style, I teleported A LOT. And with a level 1 teleport, that can eat a lot of mana. However, you can also buy mana potions now (are they considered bad manners in pubs?), so I'm not sure how they would affect game play.

5) As far as the poison nova vs. bone thing, I don't think there's any real reason to go with psn nova (then again, I've been out of the loop for a while). Nova is great for teleporters, but from what I hear, teeth can fill the gap for an area of effect attack. And lasty, with teleport of your own, it won't be as critical to have an anti-sorc attack like poison nova.

So I basically need those questions answered. That would help immensly.

1) The problem with skellies is that they need a corpse to be created, and the fact that usually in duels they're not allowed. In pubbies, you can use skellies / clay golem to gain some time / meat shields especially with opponents like FoH'ers / Bowazons. And they can be really useful. But in leagues, both clay golem and skellies (or any minions) are prohibited.

2) I think oak sage is quite useless. It dies by 1 attack, and it's a waste of time in terms of cast. Time that could be better spent attacking your opponent. It's only immune to poison in hell, so it can be useful against novanecros. But useless in every other case.

3) Most duelers I've seen on my realm are Bowazons / Bone necros / FoH'ers / Ele druids / WW-Trapper Sins / Cold sorcs and a few WW barbs.

The most difficult to face (imho) are the Bowazons and the WW Sins, even if you have a good gear they can be formidable opponents cuz they can be very fast. I've found teeth being a formidable attack vs zons. Vs sins it's very hard to duel. Despite of what is written in teh sticky, it seems to me that mind blast actually stuns the opponent in PvP, so vs sins a lot of FHR is needed, or you're a dead necro even before starting to duel. Their combo of ww / traps is very effective, and I've lost with my necro 8 duels on 10 vs sins. They are damn fast.

4) Well, if you're going to teleport a lot, you need a plenty of mana, but in pubbies you can use mana potions. In serious leagues, mana potions aren't allowed, so I think that mana gear / charms is a good choice. If a call to arms is allowed, it helps a lot with life / mana (but call to arms is usually not allowed in 1vs1 leagues).

5) Like I said before, teeth can be a marvellous attack to use. I would max it in every case. Bone spear is very good too, cuz it can damage from long distances and it's quite a pain in the ass if it hits.


However, a lot of factors can give their influence on pvp strategy. For example, the difficulty level in which the duel is made is very important. I've seen lots of leagues (euro-pvp) in which duels are made @ Normal difficulty, but if you go pubbies, the most duels are in hell (so the gear is a lot different). And - another example - the teleporting thing is critical. If teleport is allowed, all is different. Last example: "bugged items" like marrowwalks, you have to see if they're allowed or not.

As to your guide, I think it can still be good if revised / corrected in some parts. For example, in the cases you're going to need a Lidless, how about using a darkforce spawn (+3)? It has really good bonuses for pvp.

And maybe an "in-depth" section in the guide about facing specific kinds of opponents (bowazons, ww sins, etc.) can be helpful. I can try to help, just ask me what your doubts are.

[Flaming_Newbie]

as for the minions.. since i have a white wand (+3 to pnb skills), i can make it out of a wand that already give +1 to skellys so a point is saved, heh. I play on us east and most of the duelers i face are hammerdins, trapsins, bliz/fb sorcs, and pnb necros. I play public duels mostly, so anything goes. I can't tell you how many times a necro has beat me cause he had 10 skellys with him.

[c9h13no3]

@Kao
I just can't see nova being that much more powerful than BS, which is impossible to resist.

Oh, and one other things, IBS don't track.

@ Djnat
Yeah, I agree that we need to pick a rule-set to make the guide for. Most people that need guides duel in pubs, however, pubs are a pretty retarded place to duel, with varying degrees of what's allowed and what isn't. I agree that the 1 point in skellies is worth it for pubs.

I've also been tossing around the idea of a 125% cast nec. I always played at the 75% breakpoint, but if you're going to be teleporting around in pubs, 125% cast would be a big advantage. And on that note, do 1.08 Valkyrie Helms still exist? Not on ladder of course, but on non-ladder?

And one more stipulation, where do most people duel? Ladder or non-ladder?

[c9h13no3]

Originally Posted by Flaming_Newbie

as for the minions.. since i have a white wand (+3 to pnb skills), i can make it out of a wand that already give +1 to skellys so a point is saved, heh. I play on us east and most of the duelers i face are hammerdins, trapsins, bliz/fb sorcs, and pnb necros. I play public duels mostly, so anything goes. I can't tell you how many times a necro has beat me cause he had 10 skellys with him.

I'm not sure how helpful white would be, when compared to something like a spike, carin shard, or HoO. Extra damage really isn't that big of a factor, since you're already going to be banging fairly hard, especially if you're dueling in pubs and you can abuse the marrowwalk bug. I'd opt for something that gave me more life///cast.

Trapsins I never worried about. I had a pretty good record against them, mainly because I wouldn't let them get on screen. But then again, I played back in 1.09, and they didn't teleport back then.

[Kao]

It's given that BS is probably more deadly than nova, in most cases. It does more damage [no resists], and tracks.

Although, to be a successful NovaNecro (in my eyes, of course) you need Death's Web. Why? Well, in the past, I would LR a FadeSin, and nova. It would do absolutely nothing. But, using DWeb, I can actually negate Fade completly. I've nearly killed a few WW sins in only one nova. I just need to get better gear and I will be able to kill them.

[Jason]

c9: People duel on both ladder and non-ladder, but the preffered place to duel is ladder because there are no dupes, etc.

[c9h13no3]

Well, if we're gonna write a guide, we really need to pick a rule set, or just try to make a necro who can do well in all those enviroments. So I think we can agree on him having these attributes:

1. Able to duel in Hell (since that's where most pubs are).
2. Include gear, stat, and skill setups that will work in all 3 areas of play: ladder, non-ladder, and league.