South Ossetia-Georgian war

[kocten]

Force is in a true, but not in a money and Russia it will prove you. Only you do not hear about it, because Your mass medias hide from you that takes a place in the world.

And yet Russia here already a lot of ages which rescued the unique state the world from catastrophes and apocalypse (War with Napoleon 1812, World Wars) and hope Russia always such will remain...
And you, whoever wants to know those the true - give life in a lie!!! I more not going to outlay the time on you, it through keep away expensive for me.

[pablobotin]

As I wrote in the first post in which I showed the Facts, Georgia doesn't Have a permanent seat in the UNSC, but Politically, in some way Georgia must be represented by Russia in the vote in the USSR (What obviously Russia doesn't do).

It was actually Kocten who corrected me by saying that Georgia had a Permanent seat, what truly, as I said in the first post , is false.

[kocten]

to pablobotin, you even from a chair will not heave up the bum....where to you yet to lift brigades?

Let arrange another world war, you it are able, and Russians must rescue the world all of time...

Originally Posted by pablobotin

As I wrote in the first post in which I showed the Facts, Georgia doesn't Have a permanent seat in the UNSC, but Politically, in some way Georgia must be represented by Russia in the vote in the USSR (What obviously Russia doesn't do).

It was actually Kocten who corrected me by saying that Georgia had a Permanent seat, what truly, as I said in the first post , is false.

It you tell thus insolently, all of prekrassno is known that Georgia has permanent predstavit'el' in the UNSC.

And this representative already 4 days asserts that Russia of first attacked Georgia. Although mentioning facts, repeat - today the diplomats of the different European countries visited and in Georgia and in Russia and in Ossetia and send to the conclusion that Georgia is guilty

[pablobotin]

To Kocten:

Be sure that our press is not independent, cause its financed by private corporations, but be sure that In western europe we don't have long lists with all the journalists been killed by secrets services or by 'nobody':

Journalists killed in Russia :
Ilyas Shurpayev, Dagestani journalist responsible for news coverage of Northern Caucasus on Channel One, was strangled with a belt in Moscow.[7]
Gaji Abashilov, chief of Dagestan outlet of VGTRK, shot in his car

[edit] 2007
Konstantin Brovko, journalist of TV company "Gubernia" (Russian: "Губерния"), killed in Khabarovsk
Ivan Safronov, Military columninst of newspaper "Kommersant". Died in Moscow on March 2 - cause of death disputed.[11]

[edit] 2006
Vadim Kuznetsov, editor-in-chief of journal "World and home. Saint Petersburg", killed in Saint Petersburg
Vaghif Kochetkov, newspaper Trud (Labor), killed in Tula;
Ilya Zimin, he worked for NTV Russia television channel, killed in Moscow by a gay acquaintance;
Vyacheslav Akatov, special reporter, "Business Moscow" TV show, killed in Moscow Region;
Anton Kretenchuk, cameraman, 38th TV Channel, killed in Rostov-on-Don;
Yevgeny Gerasimenko, newspaper "Saratovsky Rasklad", Saratov;
Vlad Kidanov, freelance journalist, Cheboksary;
Alexander Petrov, editor-in-chief, "Right for Choice" magazine, killed near Omsk - in Altai Republic;
Vyacheslav Plotnikov, reporter, 41st TV Channel, Voronezh;
Anna Politkovskaya, observer, newspaper Novaya Gazeta, Moscow.[12][13][14][15]

[edit] 2005
Pavel Makeyev, reporter for TNT-Pulse Company, Rostov-on-Don;
Magomedzaghid Varisov, Makhachkala;
Alexander Pitersky, Baltika Radio reporter, Saint Petersburg;
Vladimir Pashutin, newspaper Smolensky Literator, Smolensk;
Tamirlan Kazikhanov, press service head, Anti-Terrorist Center of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs's Main Department for the Southern Federal District, Nalchik;
Kira Lezhneva, reporter, newspaper "Kamensky Worker", Sverdlovsk Region.[16]

[edit] 2004
Yefim Sukhanov, ATK-Media, Archangelsk;
Farit Urazbayev, cameraman, Vladivostok TV/Radio Company, city of Vladivostok;
Adlan Khassanov, Reuters reporter, killed in Grozny;
Shangysh Mondush, correspondent for newspaper Khemchiktin Syldyzy, Tuva Republic;
Paul Klebnikov, editor of Russian version of Forbes magazine, Moscow;
Payl Peloyan, editor of Armyansky Pereulok magazine, Moscow;
Zoya Ivanova, BGTRK broadcaster, Republic of Buryatia;
Vladimir Pritchin, editor-in-chief of North Baikal TV/Radio Company, Republic of Buryatia;
Ian Travinsky, Saint Petersburg, killed in Irkutsk;[17]

[edit] 2003
Aleksei Sidorov, Tolyatinskoye Obozreniye, October 9, 2003, Togliatti. He was the second editor-in-chief of local newspaper, "Tolyatinskoye Obozreniye" to be shot to death. His predecessor, Valery Ivanov, was shot in April 2002. The newspaper was known for reporting on organized crime and corruption in the industrial city of Togliatti. [8]
Yuri Shchekochikhin, Novaya Gazeta, July 3, 2003, Moscow. Deputy editor of the Novaya Gazeta, he died just a few days before his scheduled trip to USA to discuss the results of his journalist investigation with FBI officials. He investigated "Three Whales Corruption Scandal" that involved high-ranking FSB officials. Shchekochikhin died from an "acute allergic reaction" to a substance that was presumably identified as thallium. [9]
Dmitry Shvets, TV-21 Northwestern Broadcasting, April 18, 2003, Murmansk. He was deputy director of the independent television station TV-21 Northwestern Broadcasting. He was shot dead outside his station offices. Shvets' colleagues said their station had received multiple threats for its reporting on influential local politicians. [10]

[edit] 2002
Natalia Skryl, the Nashe Vremya newspaper, Taganrog town;
Konstantin Pogodin, the Novoye Delo newspaper, Nizhni Novgorod city;
Valeri Batuev, Moscow News newspaper, Moscow;
Sergei Kalinovski, the Moskovskiy Komsomolets, Smolensk;
Vitali Sakhn-Val'da, photojournalist, Kursk town;
Leonid Shevchenko, the Pervoye Chteniye newspaper, Volgograd;
Valeri Ivanov, the chief editor for the Tol'yattinskoye Obozrenie newspaper, the Samara region;
Sergei Zhabin,the press service of the governor of the Moscow region;
Nikolai Vasiliev, Cheboksary city, Chuvashia;
Leonid Kuznetsov, the Mescherskaya Nov' newspaper, the Ryazan region;
Paavo Voutilainen, a former main editor of the Kareliya magazine, Kareliya;
Roddy Scott, the Frontline-TV TV Company, from Great Britain.
Alexandr Plotnikov, the Gostiny Dvor newspaper, Tyumen city;
Oleg Sedinko, the founder of the Novaya Volna TV and Radio Company, Vladivostok city;
Nikolai Razmolodin, the general director of the Europroject TV and Radio Company, Ulyanovsk town;
Igor Salikov, the chief of the Department of information safety of the Moskovskiy Komsomolets newspaper in Penza;
Leonid Plotnikov, the publishing house "Periodicals of the Mari-El", Yoshkar-Ola.[18]

[edit] 2001
Eduard Markevich, 29, editor and publisher of local newspaper Novy Reft in Sverdlovsk Region, was found dead (shot in the back) on September 18. He often criticized local officials and had received threatening telephone phone calls prior to the murder. [11] [19]

[edit] 2000
Vladimir Yatsina, February 20, 2000. A correspondent for ITAR-TASS, he was kidnapped and later killed by a group of Wahhabis in Chechnya [20]
Aleksandr Yefremov, May 12, 2000, Chechnya. A photojournalist of the western Siberian newspaper Nashe Vremya was killed in Chechnya when rebels blew up a military jeep in which he was riding. On previous assignments, Yefremov had won acclaim for his news photographs from the war-torn region. [12]
Igor Domnikov, from Novaya Gazeta, July 16, 2000, Moscow. Unknown assassin hit him repeatedly on the head with a hammer in the entryway of his apartment building in Moscow. The killer was never found. It is believed that the assailant mistook Domnikov for a Novaya Gazeta reporter Oleg Sultanov who received threats from the FSB for his reporting on corruption in the Russian oil industry.[13]
Sergey Novikov, Radio Vesna, July 26, 2000, Smolensk. He was shot and killed in the stairwell of his apartment building. He often criticized the government of Smolensk Region. [14]
Iskandar Khatloni, Radio Free Europe, September 21, 2000, Moscow. He was killed at night with axe in his Moscow apartment by an unknown assailant. The motif of the murder is unknown, but Khatloni work on stories about the human-rights abuses in Chechnya.[21]
Sergey Ivanov, Lada-TV, October 3, 2000, Togliatti. He was shot five times in the head and chest in front of his apartment building. He was director of Lada-TV, the largest independent television company in Togliatti, which was an important player on the local political scene. [15].
Adam Tepsurgayev, Reuters, November 21, 2000, Chechnya. A Chechen cameraman, he was shot at a neighbor's house in the village of Alkhan-Kala. He produced most of Reuters' footage from Chechnya in 2000, including shots of Chechen rebel Shamil Basayev having his foot amputated. [16].

[edit] Journalists who reported on the conflict in Chechnya
Cynthia Elbaum. On assignment for Time magazine, Cynthia was photographing in the streets of Grozny, when she was killed in a Russian bombing raid in 1994.[22]
Vladimir Zhitarenko, a veteran military correspondent for the Russian armed forces daily Krasnaya Zvezda (Red Star), was hit by two sniper bullets outside the town of Tolstoy-Yurt, near the Chechen capital of Grozny on December 31, 1994.
Nina Yefimova, a reporter for local newspaper "Revival" was abducted from her apartment and killed together with her mother. Journalists in Grozny and Moscow believe that her murder was related to stories she had published on crime in Chechnya.
Jochen Piest. On January 10, 1995, Piest was killed in a suicide attack by a Chechen rebel against a Russian mine-clearing unit in the village of Chervlyonna, about 24 kilometers northeast of the Chechen capital, Grozny. The rebel was firing his submachine gun as he drove a small diesel locomotive at high speed toward a Russian troop train parked on the track. Piest was fatally hit by three bullets. Rossiskaya Gazeta correspondent Vladimir Sorokin was wounded in the attack. The gunman died when the locomotive collided with the military train.
Farkhad Kerimov. Farkhad Kerimov was murdered on May 22nd 1995 while filming for Associated Press on the rebel side of Chechnya. No motive has ever been established for the killing.
Natalya Alyakina. Natalya Alyakina, a free-lance correspondent for German news outlets, was shot dead in June by a soldier after clearing a Russian checkpoint near the southern Russian city of Budyonnovsk.
Shamkhan Kagirov. Kagirov, a reporter for the Moscow daily newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta and the local paper Vozrozheniye, was shot and killed in an ambush in Chechnya. Kagirov and three local police officers were traveling in a car near Grozny when they were attacked. The three officers were also killed.
Viktor Pimenov. In March 11, 1996, he was fatally shot in the back by a sniper positioned on the roof of a 16-story building in Grozny, the Chechen capital. Pimenov had been filming the devastation caused by the March 6-9 rebel raid on the city.
Nadezhda Chaikova. On March 20, 1996, Chaikova disappeared while on assignment. Her body was found buried in the Chechen village of Geikhi on April 11, blindfolded and bearing signs of beatings. The cause of death was a gunshot wound to the back of the head.
Supian Ependiyev. On the evening of October 27, 1999, several short-range ballistic missile hit a crowded outdoor market in central Grozny, killing or wounding hundreds of people. About an hour after the attack, Ependiyev went to the scene to cover the carnage for his paper. As he was leaving the site, a new round of rockets fell about 200 meters from the bazaar. Ependiyev suffered severe shrapnel wounds and died in a Grozny hospital the next morning. According to other sources, he died two days later.
Ramzan Mezhidov. The journalists were covering a refugee convoy en route, along the Baku-Rostov highway, from Grozny to Nazran in neighboring Ingushetia. As the convoy approached the Chechen town of Shaami Yurt, a Russian fighter bomber fired several rockets from the air, hitting a busload of refugees. Despite warnings from colleagues traveling with them, Mezhidov and Gigayev left their vehicle to film the carnage. As they approached the bus, another Russian rocket hit a nearby truck, fatally wounding both journalists.
Vladimir Yatsina, a correspondent for ITAR-TASS was kidnapped and killed by a group of Wahhabis in Chechnya on July 19, 1999. [23][24]
Aleksandr Yefremov. A photojournalist of the western Siberian newspaper Nashe Vremya was killed in Chechnya when rebels blew up a military jeep in which he was riding. On previous assignments, Yefremov had won acclaim for his news photographs from the war-torn region.
Roddy Scott. On September 26, 2002, Scott was killed in the Russian republic of Ingushetia. Russian soldiers found his body in Ingushetia's Galashki region, near the border with Chechnya, following a bloody battle between Russian forces and a group of Chechen fighters.
Magomedzagid Varisov, a political scientist and journalist, was shot to death near his home in Makhachkala. He "had received threats, was being followed and had unsuccessfully sought help from the local police" according to Committee to Protect Journalists. Sharia Jamaat claimed responsibility for the murder. [25]

The fact of not risking their lifes every day (like many Russian Journalists) makes think about the possibility of thinking of European medias as more independent and Objective.

Anyway I have family in georgia and in Russia (Rostov, Belaya Kalitva and Grozny) and I get all the information from them and from International organisations.

GEOGIA IS NOT GUILTY, THIS IS NOT A TRIAL;

Lets do a syllogism (Rigurous logical resoning)

a)In application of International Law Southern Ossetia is a part of Georgia's National Territory ( Just like CHCHNya is a part of Russia)

b) Every country has the right to use its police and military force as it is necessary to restablish order and law, according to Human rights respect and International Law;

= c) Georgia can intervene in its own territory (S ossetia) to make sure that Georgian law and order is effective.

[Uncle_Vanya]

Originally Posted by pablobotin

To kocten:

Re: Let's raise International Brigades against Russia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablobotin
You who defend Russia's Position, I have to ask you frankly: Are you silly?

How can clever people can think that Georgia has provoked Russia about what was going on in South Ossetia (The pretended death of a few " Peacekeepers", who actually were Russian military units that were operating in the aerea illegally).

Since you lack of Brains I have to remind you the different military and political forces that have the two states we're talking about:

Russia: 1.000.000 Military Soldiers and about 1.000.000 reservists,
Georgia: not even 40.000 soldiers
Russia: 1200 fight aircrafts
Georgia: None
Russia: Permanent Seat in UN Security Council
Georgia: None
Russia: 144 mil. citizens
Georgia: 4,5
Russia: the largest country in the World.
Georgia: Very Small
Russia: Full of natural ressources such as gas, oil, metals,...
Georgia: It's main ressources come from Tourism and pipeline's taxes.



DON'T BE SILLY!

How can you be so Nationalist and fascists you Russian people? it's objective Data taken from the UN website.

OUT THERE THOUSANDS OF GEORGIANS ARE BEEN KILLED BY THE ALLMIGTHY RUSSIAN MILITARY MACHINE, WHILE WE'RE JUST TRYING IN THIS FORUM TO TEACHA BIT OF INTERNATIONAL LAW AND GEOGRAPHY TO SOME (BLIND) RUSSIAN CITIZENS.

What only justifies this war, strategically speaking is that Russia wants to keep the control of the oil and gas pipelines that go from azerbaijan to Europe in order to have the monopoly of the transportation to Europe of those ressources.


I INSIST IN TRYING TO RAISE A LITTLE HUMAN FORCE TO GO TO GEORGIA IN 20 DAYS IN ORDER TO SHOW THAT RESPONSIBLE CITIZENS ARE WITH OUR FRIENDS, GEORGIAN PEOPLE THOUGH OBVIOUSLY OUR PARTICIPATION WON'TCHANGE THE RESULTS OF THE FIGHT;


Here are my contact data:

Pablo Botin
paulopezsabi@hotmail.com
International Law Student at the Sorbonne University (Paris)


Trying to offend us - you offend itself. Russians never differed foolishness.
You mentioned facts, they are truthful, but you do not understand that it is a not desire of people, it is a not desire of people of Georgia, it is a desire of a few persons, I talk about the government of Georgia and about the president of Georgia. They fill this itself pockets, a money earn on death of children.
To tamu you do not know that Georgia after poslednii of 3 expended in an armament a more money what on peaceful life. Did purchase tanks more than built houses, why it to the peaceful state?
And this at that to this president Russia and Georgia tendon of hundred years in the world. The last war between Russia and Georgia was 300 years ago. Then the USA was not as early as a project.

Oh! I didn't know that Russia (which is not only downtown Moscow, St Petersbourg and Samarra) was an example of a welfare society, and I shall remind you that in a global two years budget of 6000 bilion Rouble (3000 per year), the military costs were of 1100 bilion, which, If I'm not wrong means almost one half of the Budget: JUST LIKE GEORGIA!!!!WAW

Eh Russia military budget is only 3 percent of Russian GDP. Your English sucks btw.

Here, watch Sukashvilli run:

YouTube - ?????????? ????????? ????????

Originally Posted by pablobotin

GEOGIA IS NOT GUILTY, THIS IS NOT A TRIAL;

Lets do a syllogism (Rigurous logical resoning)

a)In application of International Law Southern Ossetia is a part of Georgia's National Territory ( Just like CHCHNya is a part of Russia)

b) Every country has the right to use its police and military force as it is necessary to restablish order and law, according to Human rights respect and International Law;

= c) Georgia can intervene in its own territory (S ossetia) to make sure that Georgian law and order is effective.

Except for Serbia right? Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers without provocation, no way to get around that one.

Originally Posted by x42bn6

Both sides accused each other of starting the conflict.

Civil.Ge | Six Die in S.Ossetia Shootout

Whoever's right or not depends on whose side you stand on, but that's not really neutral, is it?*

Georgia changes their story a few times a day, first it was Russians bombed Georgian pipeline, now BP refuted that claim, then it was Russians captured Gori, now Saakashvilli said that Russians did not capture Gori but Russian tanks are on approach to Tbilisi. Georgia has been building up troops along the border with South Ossetia for months, they are obviously the ones who started this.

[pablobotin]

Ergo: Russia has violated the non intervention norm whiwh is the one that one state cant interfere in the internal politicas of another state based upon pples of state sovereignty and self determination

[Uncle_Vanya]

Originally Posted by pablobotin

Ergo: Russia has violated the non intervention norm whiwh is the one that one state cant interfere in the internal politicas of another state based upon pples of state sovereignty and self determination

Yeap, except that Russian peacekeepers and thus Russian citizens and soldiers were attacked. Which is a declaration of war. And you bastards don't have any room to talk, look what you did in Serbia.

[pablobotin]

Eh Russia military budget is only 3 percent of Russian GDP

OK, we were talking about the budget not the GDP, take some lessons of economy, I swear I'll improve my english!

Except for serbia:


In International Law, a country can be independent if it has suffered systematic vulneration of Human Rights, which it was hapenning in Kosovo under Serbian Rule.

Georgia , using its sovereign powers killed a few Russian Soldiers who were illegally acting in South Ossetia, province of the Republic of Georgia

Georgia changes their story a few times a day, first it was Russians bombed Georgian pipeline, now BP refuted that claim, then it was Russians captured Gori, now Saakashvilli said that Russians did not capture Gori but Russian tanks are on approach to Tbilisi. Georgia has been building up troops along the border with South Ossetia for months, they are obviously the ones who started this.
__________________


It is obvious that when a powerfull army is destroying all the infrastructure of a country and when that army is killing thousands of people in that country, that country's officials can't know exactly where is the point

[RyanXWing]

Sounds like a lot of fun.

[pablobotin]

I'm sorry for what we may have done in Serbia.

I had forgotten that you liked stalin-like officials as Milosevic or Karadzic and treating whole ethnies like you did with dissidents in the Goulags, but actually we didn't.

Well, I've illustrated you a little bit about this subject (despite my english), so you can think more deeply about it, but now I have important obligations that keep me busy and so, unfortunately I have to go!

Good luck with yout georgian slaughter

See u

Uncle Vanya,

there is just a little matter that troubles me:

What the **** you do in a Western country?.... You must be horrified of Freedom, rights, independent press, independent justice and all that stuff!

Congrats for havin' the strengh of staying there!; I guess many russian wouldn't stand it for long!

Just one more thing:


SPAIN (my country) hasn't recognised kosovo's independence, since it was illegal.