South Ossetia-Georgian war

[DB]

Originally Posted by Glowpole

ever drove straight threw georgia? THERE IS NOT ONE GOD DAMN THING TO LOOK AT!!!

You've obviously never been to Atlanta. It's where the players play.


Also, I can't believe President Bush actually said something about this. Dear lord.

[upcFrost]

YouTube - Russia invades Georgia - the TRUTH
YouTube - Georgia - South Ossetia war american 12 Year Old Girl tells about war,The true face of the American "democracy" ,???? ????????)

What'll u say about that?

[x42bn6]

Originally Posted by upcFrost

YouTube - Russia invades Georgia - the TRUTH
YouTube - Georgia - South Ossetia war american 12 Year Old Girl tells about war,The true face of the American "democracy" ,???? ????????)

What'll u say about that?

I love these videos. Nobody can every be truly unbiased nor bring The Truth^TM. You have to make up your own mind given the facts.*

[upcFrost]

The first video is the pure propaganda, and i know it. But the second describes the real situation in Georgia and Ossetia.

[thebastardsword]

fox news lawls.

is anyone surprised, really?

[Tipsy]

I think it's safe to say that Russia has screwed itself over here. Going back to the spheres of interest idea I brought up in my last post, Russia has achieved nothing. Georgia's president is still in power, despite Russian calls for his removal, and Georgia is even more intent on joining NATO than ever, not to mention world support for Georgia has massively grown. Ukraine, also in the so called Russian sphere of influence, backed Georgia, has stated it still intends to join NATO, and has said its ready to deal on the missile defense system. Furthermore, Poland became more open to agreeing to the missile defense deal and has just signed onto it.

And outside of it's so called sphere of influence, there is an international consensus that Russia was the aggressor and Georgia the victim - it's pushed itself into international isolation. The only country in the world that backed Russia was Cuba and the G8 has become a de facto G7.

The worst part is its shown how far off Russia has come from being a liberal democracy. Many of the so called liberals in Russia rallied behind the attack and it showed how much power the Russian government has over the media in Russia.

Maybe Russia beat a tiny nation in a war, but in the big picture this is a loss for Russia.

[x42bn6]

In hindsight, though, I thought Russia would do something like this - her borders have gradually been tightened and she feels insecure especially as the likes of Georgia and Ukraine become pro-West.

Sadly, the true victims are those little nations that stand in its way.*

[Tipsy]

It was a calculated risk that would either result in the area around Russia either moving the area more pro-Russian or push them towards the west. Frankly, the odds were probably with Russia; the west has little leverage as Russia is needed to keep sending energy to Europe and to fight nuclear proliferation.

Sadly, the case is just Russia and the US trying to poke each other in the eye with sticks. We're pushing for a missile defense shield that is crazy expensive, doesn't work, and is meant to destroy ICBMs from a country that doesn't have ICBMS (Iran). We're pushing for an expansion of NATO that is no way in the interests of the US (Ukraine + Georgia).

Though you've got it right; the victims are the little nations where the fighting is taking place.

[Uncle_Vanya]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

I think it's safe to say that Russia has screwed itself over here. Going back to the spheres of interest idea I brought up in my last post, Russia has achieved nothing. Georgia's president is still in power, despite Russian calls for his removal, and Georgia is even more intent on joining NATO than ever, not to mention world support for Georgia has massively grown. Ukraine, also in the so called Russian sphere of influence, backed Georgia, has stated it still intends to join NATO, and has said its ready to deal on the missile defense system. Furthermore, Poland became more open to agreeing to the missile defense deal and has just signed onto it.

Ukraine is not in the Russian sphere of influence, we already gave up on Ukraine, but not on its people most of whom wish to side with us (approval ratings for NATO membership are very low in that country), Ukrainians and Russians are one and the same have been for a millenia. We deal with Ukraine accordingly minding that their government is not our friend.

What have we lost? The mission of this war was to stop Georgian aggression against South Ossetia, that mission was accomplished. We also shown the world that we are ready to play rough and can still spank the lot of them militarily. Poland was going to go through with missile defense deal either way, Russia will respond to it by placing cruise missile launch sites in Belarus to target the ABM radar and missile launch site. This is good for Russia, the stale period is coming to an end, all those charades are over with we now see clearly who is our friend and who is not, who is ready to be our partners and who is only interested in applying their own set of double standards upon us. Europe failed us, failed international law and not the first time but the game table is set now, Russia now has new resolve to strengthen itself because of these developments.

And outside of it's so called sphere of influence, there is an international consensus that Russia was the aggressor and Georgia the victim - it's pushed itself into international isolation. The only country in the world that backed Russia was Cuba and the G8 has become a de facto G7.

Which demonstrates clearly that the West is not interested in being a partner of Russia, they are only interested in Russia being their puppet state, which means Russia needs to adjast its foreign policy towards the West accordingly to fulfill its own interests. Russia was not the aggressor in this conflict and that is a fact.

The worst part is its shown how far off Russia has come from being a liberal democracy. Many of the so called liberals in Russia rallied behind the attack and it showed how much power the Russian government has over the media in Russia.

Actually, the opposite, Russian media being state run is status quo, Western media lying through their teeth and waging a propaganda campaign against Russia disregarding all the facts, that is what was surprising in this conflict, or rather eye opening.

Maybe Russia beat a tiny nation in a war, but in the big picture this is a loss for Russia.

Loss? What did we loose? This conflict lead to our separation from a group of nations that at one point wanted to pretend to be our friends but only as long as we did not put our national interests in front of theirs.

In either case one way or the other Saakashvilli's time is at an end, he will either be removed from office or he will be killed, one way or the other, watch for it in the next couple of weeks. Russia was going to surpass USSR military by 2020 according to most experts, I think now the gov't will increase military spending and we will be back much sooner.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Uncle_Vanya

Ukraine is not in the Russian sphere of influence, we already gave up on Ukraine, but not on its people most of whom wish to side with us (approval ratings for NATO membership are very low in that country), Ukrainians and Russians are one and the same have been for a millenia. We deal with Ukraine accordingly minding that their government is not our friend.

What have we lost? The mission of this war was to stop Georgian aggression against South Ossetia, that mission was accomplished. We also shown the world that we are ready to play rough and can still spank the lot of them militarily. Poland was going to go through with missile defense deal either way, Russia will respond to it by placing cruise missile launch sites in Belarus to target the ABM radar and missile launch site. This is good for Russia, the stale period is coming to an end, all those charades are over with we now see clearly who is our friend and who is not, who is ready to be our partners and who is only interested in applying their own set of double standards upon us. Europe failed us, failed international law and not the first time but the game table is set now, Russia now has new resolve to strengthen itself because of these developments.

Which demonstrates clearly that the West is not interested in being a partner of Russia, they are only interested in Russia being their puppet state, which means Russia needs to adjast its foreign policy towards the West accordingly to fulfill its own interests. Russia was not the aggressor in this conflict and that is a fact.

Actually, the opposite, Russian media being state run is status quo, Western media lying through their teeth and waging a propaganda campaign against Russia disregarding all the facts, that is what was surprising in this conflict, or rather eye opening.

Loss? What did we loose? This conflict lead to our separation from a group of nations that at one point wanted to pretend to be our friends but only as long as we did not put our national interests in front of theirs.

In either case one way or the other Saakashvilli's time is at an end, he will either be removed from office or he will be killed, one way or the other, watch for it in the next couple of weeks. Russia was going to surpass USSR military by 2020 according to most experts, I think now the gov't will increase military spending and we will be back much sooner.

The war with Georgia was a pawn in a bigger game; the area around Russia is becoming more and more pro-western, something that is not in the interests of Russia. In the perspective of expanding Russian political power and influence, a move had to be made and the international isolation that resulted from that move being the war with Georgia only hurt that. International isolation makes it much more favorable for a country to be with the rest of the world rather than Russia for the sake of their economic prosperity and political influence.

And you say ending this 'charade' is in the best interest of Russia? How exactly is world powers poking each other in the eye with sticks in the interest of any country? How is moving towards provoking aggression between countries that have the power to destroy the world in any country's best interest?

You bring up the growth of Russian military might; that's a laughable joke. We live in a nuclear age where fighting a major war is not measured in relative terms but where there is an absolute threshold that can be met with nuclear weapons. Russia can have as many men, tanks, planes, ships, or anything else in its armed forces, but it's nothing more than a joke in a nuclear age where nuclear weapons can destroy entire countries.

All in all though, I'd probably say the biggest loss for the Russian people was veering off the road to being a liberal democracy. A country can be as powerful as possible, but, in my opinion, it amounts to nothing if its people aren't free.