Creationism vs evolutionism

[B~E]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inter...9520%2C00.html

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The museum is riding a wave of creationist influence in America. Creationism, which holds that the Earth is just a few thousand years old and the biblical account of Genesis is fact, is central to a rash of furious arguments across America.

That wellspring of popular belief, and the political clout that comes with it, is the inspiration behind the museum. It is not interested in debating with mainstream science. It simply wants to represent the view of a significant slice of America.


But creationism is seeking to become more influential in other parts of the country. In Kansas the state school board recently held public hearings on the validity of evolution and the teaching of 'Intelligent Design' (ID) in classrooms. The hearings were boycotted by scientists who believed they were rigged against evolutionists.

Creationism has found one high-level voice. President George Bush famously proclaimed: 'The jury is still out on evolution.' A CBS survey late last year showed that 45 per cent of Bush voters wanted creationism taught in schools instead of evolution, compared to 24 per cent of voters for John Kerry.

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Whats I find most incredible about this is that the debate is heating insteed of dying.

I'm not more interested in having a debate between creationism vs evolutionism than a debate over why on Earth is creationism getting more and more popular. From my remote region in cold, atheist Canada, I can only wonder at why, what is wrong with them at the south.

[Algazaleen!]

People in the South seem to think that thier kids actually care about what is being taught in school.

[Bret]

This debate again?
Haven't there been hundreds and they have never been resolved?

[Zerglite]

funny shit...

i laugh everytime somebody says we came from monkeys...

and i laugh harder when someone says "god created <insert random thing>"

[amrtin77]

so you obviously have a better theory on what lead to human existance?

[Zerglite]

Originally Posted by amrtin77

so you obviously have a better theory on what lead to human existance?

im here... why should i care what happened thousands of years ago

[Tipsy]

Well, here is what I think about evolution vs creationism from a Roman Catholic point of view.

It was quite awhile ago that it was stated by Pope Pius XII, the earliest speaking of it on the part of the Roman Catholic Church that I can remember, stated that "that there was no opposition between evolution and the doctrine of the faith about man and his vocation, on condition that one did not lose sight of several indisputable points."

The bible says, one point creationists use a lot, that we were created in the image and likeness of God. Does that mean that the creation story and evolution contradict each other? Not at all. As I have stated many times, the bible is not to be taken literally, by multiple people, dating back to the beginnings years of the church Jesus created on earth. So then what exactly does that phrase mean? I have commonly said it merely means free will, but since I am writing this to show my church's viewpoint, I will quote Summa Theologica: "man's likeness to God resides especially in his speculative intellect; for his relationship with the object of his knowledge resembles God's relationship with what he has created."

The one point I mentioned earlier stated by Pope Pius XII is that "if the human body takes its origin from pre-existent living matter, the spiritual soul is immediately created by God." So from this it should be quite obvious that evolution and mainstream Christianity are in fact very compatible.

I personally am not a supporter of hardcore creationism and am leaning slightly more towards evolution. Though to me it really doesn't matter to me which is true, because in the end, you and I were created by God, whether by how evolution, creationism, or any other theory says we were created.

[Zerglite]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

in the end, you and I were created by God.

to be more accurate...

You and i were created by sexual intercourse between our parents.

BAM!

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Emolite

to be more accurate...

You and i were created by sexual intercourse between our parents.

BAM!

To be even more accurate, our parents do not create the tripartite being we are, of body, soul, and spirit. Our parents only create our body.

[Zerglite]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

To be even more accurate, our parents do not create the tripartite being we are, of body, soul, and spirit. Our parents only create our body.

assumind the soul and spirit are real entities and are not simply ideas

then without the body your soul and spirit would have a medium with which to interact with the world

[TheJanitor]

Tispy are the spirit or soul different? Or did you just use 2 words for the same thing, perhaps suggesting that the soul is more important than the body.

[Emperor Pan I]

spirit and soul doesn't exist. it si another way men can differentiate themselves from the enviroment and make themselves feel special.

And the argument is to start with flawed. neither is completely true. Creationism was made up by the writers of the bible, and evolutionism has little fact and is a theory. However the theory is also being disputed. I still remember the godamn play "inherit the wind" were the closed minded got told straight up they were being idiotic in thier views.

I can nevre understnad people like that, and dont wish too

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Thejanitor

Tispy are the spirit or soul different? Or did you just use 2 words for the same thing, perhaps suggesting that the soul is more important than the body.

Yes, there is a difference. Everyone basically knows what the soul is more or less so I won't explain that. The spirit to the Roman Catholic Church, and I quote the catechism, "signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God."

Also, as a side point, I did not mean to emphasize the soul being more important than the body, but to my faith it is.

Originally Posted by Pan

Creationism was made up by the writers of the bible

Creationism was made by people who don't understand the bible.

then without the body your soul and spirit would have a medium with which to interact with the world

And since we are assuming God exists here, considering we are talking about the soul and spirit as well, then who originally made what makes up our body? (rhetorical question)

[Zerglite]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

And since we are assuming God exists here, considering we are talking about the soul and spirit as well, then who originally made what makes up our body? (rhetorical question)

our parents, then their parents... and so on an so forth

[Tipsy]

our parents, then their parents... and so on an so forth

The rhetorical question implied who created the humans the had no parents, the first humans to exist, or what they evolved from.

[Zerglite]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

The rhetorical question implied who created the humans the had no parents, the first humans to exist, or what they evolved from.

you dont know, i dont know, nobody does.

we can speculate all we like, but i doubt we ever find an answer to that question

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Emolite

you dont know, i dont know, nobody does.

we can speculate all we like, but i doubt we ever find an answer to that question

...


This whole time I have been implying God did. I said that God created us, our body, soul, and spirit. You responded by saying our parents created us. This whole time I have been saying that God did.

[Lights]

I would just like to know how creationism could be considered a 'scientific theory'. I don't really care if it is true or not, but in order for it to be taught in a science lab, it should have scientific evidence behind it. From what I can tell, it is merely transfered from the Bible and creationists just like to point out errors/holes in other theorys (mainly evolution), but fail to give hardcore evidence on their own behalf.

Example: "There have been no missing links in evolution! Therefore, Creationism is correct!" or "There is no way the earth is that old! Creationism must be the one, then!"


I couldn't care less if it is taught in Church, but I would like some scientific evidence, beyond the Bible, that can verify it as a true theory, and not just a religious belief.

[B~E]

Originally Posted by Pan

spirit and soul doesn't exist. it si another way men can differentiate themselves from the enviroment and make themselves feel special.

It does make us special, and it does differentiate us from our environment, but it is far from being an argument against the existence of soul.

And the argument is to start with flawed. neither is completely true. Creationism was made up by the writers of the bible, and evolutionism has little fact and is a theory. However the theory is also being disputed. I still remember the godamn play "inherit the wind" were the closed minded got told straight up they were being idiotic in thier views.

I can nevre understnad people like that, and dont wish too

What tickles me isn't if they are right or wrong, its why is it that they are growing in popularity and influence, why are you americans walking backward into conservatisme ?

Conservatisme is only another symptome of a nation in decline.

[Firebat]

Evolution is not just a theory, it may be a bit shakey at some parts but it has been proven by far. I say that God didnt create everything at once but slowly created one thing after another, so you can believe in God and evolution at the same time like me!! hurray