Do you understand what you believe?

[unkwnusr2]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

I believe homosexual marriages are wrong. If you think this is not debatable go look at a 12 page thread debating this belief. Beliefs are debatable. If you don't know how words can have multiple meaning in English because English isn't your first language then I understand, but if you are just trying to uselessly look smart by trying to find something that isn't there then don't bother. And if opinions are crap than everything about everybody's personality is crap. All of your values, morals, etc are all based off of your opinions. I think I have explained this clearly enough but please stop making pointless posts that need to be corrected.

"I believe homosexual marriages are wrong."
Homosexual marriage is a matter of morals while the existance of God isn't. Believing in God is pure belief with no factual backup so it isn't debatable. And discussing morals isn't about trading opinions and beliefs, it's about finding a truth using arguments. Opinions as such are worthless, what counts is truth. And I was talking about the type of opinion that is what I call stupid opinion. People who have their own truths and think that makes them something good. Hey, that's my truth, you can't take it from me. If your reasoning for an opinion is decent it should be fairly close to actual truth. Opinions on the basis of believing is crap. Opinions that are just opinions like "I believe homosexual marriage is gay" are totally stupid because that's just your stupid belief based on some stupid squared book. Nobody cares about beliefs because belief means not knowing. People believe a lot of shit these days and most of the time they think the opinion in itself is something strong that can't be defeated. If you know something, believing in it isn't even needed as such.
The problem with people debating their belief is that far more than 90% of the population is too stupid to realize what a pain in the ass their belief is. Additionally they don't have the brains to understand logical argumentation. See, if you've been brought up with your parents hammering you with beliefs that are shit, you will keep them for some time. If your brain is closer to the one of an animal you will probably stick to your beliefs, no matter how many tell you that it's shit and that it makes no logical sense. This is the problem. People debate about stupid shit like gay marriage because too many people are idiots and don't realize that they don't have any sort of valid argumentation.

[Tipsy]

"I believe homosexual marriages are wrong."
Homosexual marriage is a matter of morals while the existance of God isn't. Believing in God is pure belief with no factual backup so it isn't debatable.

If you are going by that definition then technically nothing is debatable.

And discussing morals isn't about trading opinions and beliefs, it's about finding a truth using arguments. Opinions as such are worthless, what counts is truth.

Unfortunately nothing in our scientific knowledge can be proven one hundred percent without a doubt. The actual truth you are referring to cannot be obtained.

And I was talking about the type of opinion that is what I call stupid opinion.

All morals and values come from your opinions, it's psychology 101. If you believe opinions are stupid, then so are the values and morals of every single human being.

People who have their own truths and think that makes them something good. Hey, that's my truth, you can't take it from me. If your reasoning for an opinion is decent it should be fairly close to actual truth.

Which is why this thread is here. It is to look at the reasoning of why or why not you believe in God. If your reasoning is blind faith which I have no problem with, or there is no tangible evidence that God exists that is fine with me as well, the point of this thread is the reasoning that you have.

Opinions on the basis of believing is crap. Opinions that are just opinions like "I believe homosexual marriage is gay" are totally stupid because that's just your stupid belief based on some stupid squared book. Nobody cares about beliefs because belief means not knowing. People believe a lot of shit these days and most of the time they think the opinion in itself is something strong that can't be defeated. If you know something, believing in it isn't even needed as such.

Well then if our beliefs mean nothing then I guess in your reasoning that there is no problem with murder, genocide, etc. Some people 'believe' it is wrong, but apparently from your reasoning there is no problem with it.

The problem with people debating their belief is that far more than 90% of the population is too stupid to realize what a pain in the ass their belief is.

Where does that 90% number come from? Or is it just a random number you made up? If so, I really doubt you have met 90% of the world to make that sort of conclusion.

Additionally they don't have the brains to understand logical argumentation. See, if you've been brought up with your parents hammering you with beliefs that are shit, you will keep them for some time. If your brain is closer to the one of an animal you will probably stick to your beliefs, no matter how many tell you that it's shit and that it makes no logical sense. This is the problem. People debate about stupid shit like gay marriage because too many people are idiots and don't realize that they don't have any sort of valid argumentation.

And there is no valid argument that human life has any value, so according to this mentality you should have no problem with murder, genocide, etc.

Edit: Everything you've said should just be answered in my first post:
"Just to avoid useless posts, if you do not believe in God merely because there is not one hundred percent tangible evidence of him or you believe in a god or gods just because you think he exists for no real reason or about faith, because there is no way to actually debate these."

[B~E]

Originally Posted by unkwnusr2

Beliefs aren'T debateble, refer to my previous post.

But your previous post is nothing but a blank statement, without argument or anything with which one could argue.

Still, worthy beliefs are backed with the facts and arguments, which are debatable, that lead the person to accept this belief in the first place, and through this, two parties can have a discussion. So I dont understand why you are saying beliefs are worthless and not debatable.

For exemple, aren't you and tipsy here having a great discussion on your personal opinion concerning the real worth of beliefs ?

[Lights]

People can believe whatever the hell they want, even without any factual back-up. They can debate that belief, though the debate wouldn't be the most logical or rational. I don't mind people having their beliefs. Tipsy can believe in his god all he wants. Where I begin to have a problem is where those obscure beliefs begin to be claimed as scientific or objective..

But that's just me.

[Master.America]

I'm not sure exactly what the Arcane Sanctuary is supposed to be anymore, but from what I've seen (and as this thread confirms, in my opinion), this place seems to be nothing more than a combination of the Asylum with ideology and rational thought.

I believe what I believe (whatever that may be) because I was raised the way I was raised. I don't know how else to put it. I went to church when I was young. My dad left us when I was three and we stopped going to church. Honestly, I don't think my faith would have differed even if I had kept going to church. I believe in God anyway. To be 100% honest, I believe in God because of the barefaced fact that it is healthier to believe in a higher being than oneself. I don't think I truly "understand" what I believe in. What I believe in is supposedly called "Christianity," but, in reality, I know nothing about that religion. I've got a Jewish friend that tells me all sorts of things about my religion that I don't know about. But I believe in God anyway, mostly for that one reason. I've got a couple other (personal) reasons to believe in God, too, but I'm not at liberty to discuss those publicly.

[B~E]

Originally Posted by Master_America

I'm not sure exactly what the Arcane Sanctuary is supposed to be anymore, but from what I've seen (and as this thread confirms, in my opinion), this place seems to be nothing more than a combination of the Asylum with ideology and rational thought.

Minus the flames, one line replies and double posts. I just got off from my vacation holidays ( it lasted 6 weeks), and I'll get this place into shape again.

[Master.America]

That's because people actually use rationale in their posts here. In the Asylum, it's more like when you lock a bunch of squirrels in a cage and poke them with sticks. They make a lot of noise and seem to be trying to say something, but it doesn't make much sense.

[coolnamepending]

I believe in God first and foremost based on personal experience, which, as a rational individual, I realize amounts to considerably less than a hedgehog's ass in any sort of intelligent debate.

There are several rational reason's to believe in the existance or possibility for the existance of some sort of a God. First, a purely formal reason- The proposition that there is no God is a univeral negative proposition, requiring knowledge of everything in the universe in order for the statement to be made with any degree of certainty. So, the only way that anyone can say with complete certainty that there is no God is if he or she knows everything, which, by most standards, would make that individual God or a god of some sort. So, by this line of reasoning, it seems that there is at least some sort of possibilty of a God's existance.

Second, there is the cosmological argument for the existance of God. The argument essentially states that there is a cause for everything down to one final cause; the cause of everything else and, according to Thomas Aquinas, who made the first documented use of this argument, that final cause can be nothing but God. Today, there is the the Big Bang competing with God, so He is not the only solution to this, but this increases the chance of his existance.

There are more basic arguments for the existance of God, but I've forgotten them as it's been a while since I've exercised them, so I hope I will be forgiven my lapse in buildup of arguments, and skip to a far more advanced argument.

The next argument is the argument from the divinity of Christ, expressed in C.S. Lewis's Trillema. It presupposes that Christ lived, though I'm pretty sure that is a fairly safe preupposition. The Trillema states that Christ was either Lord, Lunatic, or Liar. He could not have been a good man because a good man would not have claimed to be God, and either led others away from a real God, or brought them to needless persecution at the hands of the powers that be. If he was a lunatic, he would not have attracted the audience that he did, and would not have had the coherence that is attributed to him. If he was a liar, he would have recanted as the Romans were planning to torture and kill him. The only remaining option is that he is God, meaning that God exists.

[B~E]

Eh, according to your logic, I could as well believe in the all mighty power of a Leprechaun God !

How does the théory of the big bang increase the chance of the existence of God ?

About about your first proof, One could say that there is no God, not because he knows everything, but because he didn't see anything proving is existence. So he doesn't need to know everything, he just need to be ignorant of the facts that rpoves His existence.

[coolnamepending]

The big bang doesnt, it decreases it; sorry if I didn't state that clearly.

[thebastardsword]

for the religious side:

the big bang could have been caused by god...so there

[Nicholas The Slide]

hmm i believe its called Wizards First Rule: People will believe anything if its what they want to hear

and Third Rule: Passion RUles Reason

hence when someone dies that is close to you, you may either get mad at God (if you believe in him) or you may go and start praying and believeing because you want there to be an aftrerlife.

[Ethanael]

To the above posts, my reply is relatively short. In the words of Friedrich Nietszche,
"Knowledge is the Enemy of Faith."

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Ethanael

To the above posts, my reply is relatively short. In the words of Friedrich Nietszche,
"Knowledge is the Enemy of Faith."

I'm not really sure how that makes any sense. How is knowledge an enemy to faith. There has never been any scientific evidence that in any way helps disprove God. An example of this which is not very common, is that the Vatican actually support evolution.

hence when someone dies that is close to you, you may either get mad at God (if you believe in him) or you may go and start praying and believeing because you want there to be an aftrerlife.

Or you stop believing in him.