Yet another WW2 thread

[Eclipse_Hope]

i may piont out for every german killed at least 6 russians were killed and russia didnt really do all of the killing...the winter did.
germans shot on avergare 100 russia planes per 2 weeks at then end of the ffighting they started shooting down 20 per wkek becuz russia was geting better pilots and aricraft?
NO!
there were less planes 2 shoot down!
the only reason russia survies is becuz hitler was overexpansive

US-even before they eetered the war the played a larger part then many countires did combined(i.e. lend-llease act even giving older ships 2 russia britian and australlia)

i may piont out that us envolvedment in the war was multi-frontal 2<== if thats a word

i may also piont out that before the winter devasted german troop casuties were at just over 1.5 million.....and the took 500,000 thousand square mile from rusia...somthing no country has eve accomlished and will never do so...
i may also piont out that germany was fighting a 3 front war.....3!!



and american generals were unquestinably more tactful then any other(with expections of erwin rommel mayb,arguable)

=)

Originally Posted by Kuzmich

You do realize that what you said is completely your own misinformation? Two years? It took Russia 4 years to defeat 3 times as many Germans as americans and britsh and canadians have defeated together. You had 300000 casualties with UK and Canada helping you and you fought against the worst soldiers Germany had to offer. If you faced what Russia had to face you'd be crushed. Your troops would be thrown into the Atlantic ocean easily. And D-day wouldn't be possible, because if Russia was not in the war then Germany would have many times more people on those beaches, more machine guns, more artillery, more anything, they would simply overrun you. Not that they would have to do that, a German soldier was better trained and disciplined then any other soldier on the planet. You would be defeated in Africa, in Italy, everywhere. The war would have lasted longer and at the end US would probably be the only thing left that NAzis haven't touched, and then eventually US will fall as well, the distance would not be saving you forever.

Now to Tipsy:

Well thought out post, exept let me correct you in few things. You said that they would use modified V2 rockets, but in reality they would use (and they have already used) modified V1 rockets. They have used those in their last major air offensive there they unsucessfully tried to stop a fleet of allied bombers.

Also Germans did not have nukes, Hitler has chosen a wrong direction of research, instead of carbon based nuclear technology he chose to give the funds to the heavy water based nuclear technology which prooved less efficient.

Thats all the facts from you i hav to correct.

May i piont out that american canadian and british generals had real armies and didnt send there men suicidally into battle....
i may also piont out that we didnt lose entire generations of ppl just so war could be over quicker,
and we were also fighting japan ....... and not 2 years after.. u idiot
we were fighting them since the battle of midway in 1942.....
gg pwned

and btw russia couldn;t handle wut germany sent either....who supplied u with 65% of your arms..
HINT: it wasn't russia or gemany!

alos the fact is germany did have as many men in those beaches(veterans divivsions 2/panzer didvisions) but hitler was 2 be waked whe it occured.

there were just as many men in germany plus defences....the eastern front hd little defence becuz u were considered a small threat, and it was if not for the decisive and well thought threw victory by operation market garden etc.

[Tipsy]

i may piont out for every german killed at least 6 russians were killed and russia didnt really do all of the killing...the winter did.

The winter allowed gave the Soviets much needed time, but it did not 'do all the killing'. The winter pretty much immobalized much of the German army, allowing the Soviets to fight in an environment they were prepared to fight in, and also give them time to mass produce tanks with slanted armor, a innovation first used by the Soviet I may add, that completely overwhelmed the German front and continued destroying their army all the way back to Berlin, even the soliders who never even entered the Soviet winter and were reinforcements.

germans shot on avergare 100 russia planes per 2 weeks at then end of the ffighting they started shooting down 20 per wkek becuz russia was geting better pilots and aricraft?
NO!

It may have not been a tactical victory with ideal loses of the victor, but it was a victory nonetheless.

there were less planes 2 shoot down!
the only reason russia survies is becuz hitler was overexpansive

Nazi mentality says it all. Why would the 'invincible' 'aryan' race ever fall to the 'inferior' slavic race? If you take away the Nazi mentality then Hitler would have most likely never come to power in the way he did, maybe never at all.

US-even before they eetered the war the played a larger part then many countires did combined(i.e. lend-llease act even giving older ships 2 russia britian and australlia)

You do release that we, the United States, were giving these 'lend-leases' not only to England and the Soviets, but to Germany as well. At that point we were in it for the economic gain, not to turn the tide of a war.

i may also piont out that before the winter devasted german troop casuties were at just over 1.5 million.....and the took 500,000 thousand square mile from rusia...somthing no country has eve accomlished and will never do so...
i may also piont out that germany was fighting a 3 front war.....3!!

So the Germans took 500,000 square miles from the Soviets, and yet no country has ever done so? That is kind of contradictory.

and american generals were unquestinably more tactful then any other(with expections of erwin rommel mayb,arguable)

It all has to do with what you think it 'tactful'. From other perspective just charging troops into battle could be 'tactful'.

May i piont out that american canadian and british generals had real armies and didnt send there men suicidally into battle....
i may also piont out that we didnt lose entire generations of ppl just so war could be over quicker

Once again, this is a perspective thing. They sent their men into battle because they were fighting for their existance. They never knew the war would go in their favor, how would they know that every charge they made could or could not save their motherland.

and we were also fighting japan ....... and not 2 years after.. u idiot
we were fighting them since the battle of midway in 1942.....

Kuzmich addressed this in an earlier post.

and btw russia couldn;t handle wut germany sent either....who supplied u with 65% of your arms..
HINT: it wasn't russia or gemany!

Your right, it wasn't Russia or Germany, it was the Soviet Union.

alos the fact is germany did have as many men in those beaches(veterans divivsions 2/panzer didvisions) but hitler was 2 be waked whe it occured.

there were just as many men in germany plus defences....the eastern front hd little defence becuz u were considered a small threat, and it was if not for the decisive and well thought threw victory by operation market garden etc.

I don't think you understand the extent of the Atlatnic wall. If it was filled to even the minimal amount, the D-day force would most likely be severely crippled, defeated, or pushed back into the sea by the Germans who did continue to fight after D-day.

If you read all of Kuzmich's posts in this thread it will clearify pretty much every point you made and more. Kuzmich won't be back for awhile so don't expect him to respond.

If you respond, then please respond with something that resembles grammar.

[Eclipse_Hope]

Sorry my typing is not so good. But u make a couple very good pionts. ive been reading up on the german front and learedned alot buut i'd like 2 say that no 1 could have defeated germany by themselves so this post is utterly piontless.
I kno more about the pacfic theater soooo my opinoins arn't as exact as id like them besides im only 14 gimmes a break!
You just shat all over me, ass!
Hows that for grammer?

and as for us selling arms 2 germany.....yes but on a very little quote, american public hated hitler the goverment knew it wouldn't be wise 2 sell much arms 2 them.

[shimshimheyxD]

Has to be..

Hitler gassed his own relative

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Eclipse_Hope

no 1 could have defeated germany by themselves so this post is utterly piontless.

Notice the "View Poll Results: Who played the biggest role?" in the thread question.

and as for us selling arms 2 germany.....yes but on a very little quote, american public hated hitler the goverment knew it wouldn't be wise 2 sell much arms 2 them.

Actually there was quite a bit of German support from the United States. A large proportion of the United States' population was considered German and had only left Germany a few generations before. A lot of this group felt loyal to Germany and some of them even went back to Germany just like other Americans went to other countries to help fight against the Germans. As for it wouldn't be wise to sell to him, most people were really indifferent from the war and just wanted to make money.

[Kuzmich]

Originally Posted by Eclipse_Hope

Sorry my typing is not so good. But u make a couple very good pionts. ive been reading up on the german front and learedned alot buut i'd like 2 say that no 1 could have defeated germany by themselves so this post is utterly piontless.
I kno more about the pacfic theater soooo my opinoins arn't as exact as id like them besides im only 14 gimmes a break!
You just shat all over me, ass!
Hows that for grammer?

and as for us selling arms 2 germany.....yes but on a very little quote, american public hated hitler the goverment knew it wouldn't be wise 2 sell much arms 2 them.

Oh right america hated Hitler, thats why you didn't allow your Jewish athletes participate during the olympics in 1930s.

[Kuzmich]

Originally Posted by Eclipse_Hope

i may piont out for every german killed at least 6 russians were killed and russia didnt really do all of the killing...the winter did.
germans shot on avergare 100 russia planes per 2 weeks at then end of the ffighting they started shooting down 20 per wkek becuz russia was geting better pilots and aricraft?
NO!
there were less planes 2 shoot down!
the only reason russia survies is becuz hitler was overexpansive

Ah no, they never shot 100 planes per week, where are you getting this? Yes Russian army was the one that did all the killing, or do you claim that winter has killed 2.4 million Germans, and 7.6 million Fins, Hungarians, etc? You really need to read about Eastern front, its quite interesting.

Originally Posted by Eclipse_Hope

US-even before they eetered the war the played a larger part then many countires did combined(i.e. lend-llease act even giving older ships 2 russia britian and australlia)

Ah, supplies don't win wars, armies win wars, also your supplies were not vital to anyone.

i may piont out that us envolvedment in the war was multi-frontal 2<== if thats a word

Actually its three, Africa, Italy and Normandy. All combined however only occumulated 20% of German armed forces, all the other 80% were on the Eastern front.

i may also piont out that before the winter devasted german troop casuties were at just over 1.5 million.....and the took 500,000 thousand square mile from rusia...somthing no country has eve accomlished and will never do so...
i may also piont out that germany was fighting a 3 front war.....3!!

Ah, no winter didn't kill 1.5 million Germans. Seriously, how do you expect anybody to survive if people just drop dead from the cold? Do you yourself believe in what you saying? And you claim that your education is better then mine? Seioursly? You're histerical

and american generals were unquestinably more tactful then any other(with expections of erwin rommel mayb,arguable)

=)

Really? Tactful? As is in they had manners? Or did you mean they had tactical ability? Yeah, sure.... well.... no they weren't. If you look at sheer numbers of tactical battles won, then Red Army is few hundred battles ahead of US army, of course we fought a war on a much larger scale and our enemy had much more troops then yours, but still. Also its not tactics that win the war, its strategy. Oh and if 75% of German mechanized divisions were not on the Eastern front, where was no way for you to win in Africa that fast, it would take you atleast 3 years, and invasion of Normandy would in no way be possible.

May i piont out that american canadian and british generals had real armies and didnt send there men suicidally into battle....
i may also piont out that we didnt lose entire generations of ppl just so war could be over quicker,
and we were also fighting japan ....... and not 2 years after.. u idiot
we were fighting them since the battle of midway in 1942.....
gg pwned

Isn't that what i said? 1942? Yeah i think so. Anyways, you saying that Soviet Union had an "imaginary army"? We didn't sacrafice a generation of people, where are still veterans around today, many of them.

and btw russia couldn;t handle wut germany sent either....who supplied u with 65% of your arms..
HINT: it wasn't russia or gemany!

Actually it was Russia, particularly the factories located just east of Ural mountains.

alos the fact is germany did have as many men in those beaches(veterans divivsions 2/panzer didvisions) but hitler was 2 be waked whe it occured.

Germany had 12 division on those beaches, thats against 12 american divisions (american division during that time was 20000 men, German one was 10000 men), while on the same day 45 German divisions, fought 63 Russian divisions.

there were just as many men in germany plus defences....the eastern front hd little defence becuz u were considered a small threat, and it was if not for the decisive and well thought threw victory by operation market garden etc.

We were considered a small threat? Thats why he sent most of his army after us? Get an education. Operation Barbarossa and invasion of USSR is Hitler's single most crucial mistake, once he invaded USSR Germany was doomed to fail. All the other fronts don't even come in comparison with the significance and the scale of war on the Eastern front.

Russia fought the Japan as well, we defeated one of their armies, you might say it had no effect, but we signed an agreement after the fall of Germany, under which we on request of Americans wouldn't invade Japan for 3 months after V-E day.

[Jiggy]

None of the Allied forces would have won without the others. Russia wouldnt have won without the other front and neither would the Britis or the Americans. It was a combined effort that beat the Germans.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

None of the Allied forces would have won without the others. Russia wouldnt have won without the other front and neither would the Britis or the Americans. It was a combined effort that beat the Germans.

And once again the point of this thread is misunderstood. Read the poll question: "Who played the biggest role?". The only reason that this thread keeps going on and on is because somehow somebody came to the conclusion that the United States could beat Germany 1v1. Anywho, as it has been clearly stated, unless something new is presented, it looks like the Soviet Union has the biggest role so far.

[Ashigaru]

Ah, supplies don't win wars, armies win wars, also your supplies were not vital to anyone.

No supplies= no army, no army= your ass gets pwned

Ah, no winter didn't kill 1.5 million Germans. Seriously, how do you expect anybody to survive if people just drop dead from the cold? Do you yourself believe in what you saying? And you claim that your education is better then mine? Seioursly? You're histerical

You cant tell me you believe that the winter had no effect on the german army. I would guess it would be a huge blow to their moral as well as their ability to fight. You dont fight well in extreme conditions that you have never been through before.

Germany had 12 division on those beaches, thats against 12 american divisions (american division during that time was 20000 men, German one was 10000 men), while on the same day 45 German divisions, fought 63 Russian divisions.

Only one beachhead was a hassle to take so whats your point?

[dreamcrusader]

Russia contributed the most, powerwise with amount of troops, tanks, and casualties.

America contributed the most Industrial wise. Meaning food, production, technology ect. America also had the best technology, and took care of almost all of the Pacific Theatre.

[Tipsy]

No supplies= no army, no army= your ass gets pwned

It should be pretty obvious of a lack of supplies that the Soviets had. If you want a really easy example to pick up, normally if you see an attack from Soviet soliders (not saying all, just the movies you normally see here in America) you can look at historical pictures or historical movies, and even some Hollywood movies have picked up on the fact that one gun was given to two guys, when the first dies the second guy picks it up. And there wasn't 'no supplies' and armies can be run off very small official supplies from things being taken from the environment around the soliders, towns, cities, etc.

You cant tell me you believe that the winter had no effect on the german army. I would guess it would be a huge blow to their moral as well as their ability to fight. You dont fight well in extreme conditions that you have never been through before.

If you actually read the post you quoted, the first line is "Ah, no winter didn't kill 1.5 million Germans". If you can find any fact where 1.5 million Germans froze to death please show me. It did not kill them, this whole fighting in extreme conditions is a given, which has not been disputed by anyone here.

Only one beachhead was a hassle to take so whats your point?

The point is if enough German soliders were taken from the eastern front to fill the Atlantic Wall to its' 'minimum' amount, the D-day invasion would have been pushed right back into the sea.

[dreamcrusader]

Actually I think Tipsy that if Hitler had ordered the 20 something extra Panzar divisions right away, then maybe they could haved denyed the Aliies a beachhead. I know he was asleep but thats perrty gay

[B~E]

Bah, dont blame this on Hitler. Blame this on the messed up chain of command in France, the inerfighting between the generals, and Rommel who was in east Germany, in his bavarian province, to celebrate his wife's birthday by personaly giving her the shoes he bought for her in Paris. The defence of France wasn't up to Hitler, it was up to the generals in France to react properly. It was their responsability.

Damn, I knew that biography of Rommel would make me look somewhat cultivated one day.

[TrongaMonga]

Originally Posted by dreamcrusader

Russia contributed the most, powerwise with amount of troops, tanks, and casualties.

America contributed the most Industrial wise. Meaning food, production, technology ect. America also had the best technology, and took care of almost all of the Pacific Theatre.

Actually Germany had the best technology. They were more advanced than any other nation during the war. Only in the very end it changed.

And Hitler was a really bad military general. If he was the one defending France it'd have gone earlier

As for the D-Day, its main reason to work was that the secret services of the Allies sent a corpse inside a boat, with a suitcase, that had "Top Secret" fake papers that said the attack would be in Calais

[Ashigaru]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

The point is if enough German soliders were taken from the eastern front to fill the Atlantic Wall to its' 'minimum' amount, the D-day invasion would have been pushed right back into the sea.

In case you had forgotten those beaches were under heavy bombing before the invasion, more troops on the wall would have made little difference.

[B~E]

They had enough troops already, just not a proper coordinations in the command structure of the generals in charge of the defence. An interesting note, the british where sending secret signals on a channel (the BBC I believe) to the french resistence, in order for them to coordinate their sabotage effort with the D-Day invasion. Thing is, a branche of the german intelligence had figured out the code, yet the guy in charge of said intelligence branche was apparently either a patheticly lazy moron, or a brilliant traitor, because he managed to dismiss, and hide this information to his superiors.

[Ashigaru]

Probably didn't think it would make any difference on the outcome of the war.

[dreamcrusader]

Originally Posted by TrongaMonga

Actually Germany had the best technology. They were more advanced than any other nation during the war. Only in the very end it changed.

And Hitler was a really bad military general. If he was the one defending France it'd have gone earlier

As for the D-Day, its main reason to work was that the secret services of the Allies sent a corpse inside a boat, with a suitcase, that had "Top Secret" fake papers that said the attack would be in Calais

Actually your wrong. Other than the Panzar tanks and motorized divisions Germany was nothing compared to American technology. Try and counter my points with german ones that were massed produced.

M1 Garand> Most advanced rifle during WW2
Spitfighter and Mustang engines planes> Same as #1, Germany couldnt match it

And do we even need to compare the Navys of the 2? Sure the U-boats were amazing but they were nothing towards the end of the war compared to our fleet.

And what about Americas industrail influence with the quanity of supplys to fuel our advancements. And do I even need to mentian the "nuke"

[B~E]

You didn't mention german fighter jet. Why ?