Center of the universe

[tskaze]

Ive looked it up on the internet, but i dont understand. how cant there be a center of the univeres? If a figure is 3 dimensional, it follows that it has a center, as in a point where the edges are all equidistant from that point. the most common analogy is that the universe is like a baloon, and there is no center on a ballon. but it would seem to me that we are not on the universe but within it. Could someone here explain this to me?

[TrongaMonga]

That is because the universe does not have 3 space dimensions. Nowadays, it has been proved that it has around 11 or so. How can I get you to understand that, I don't know.

But, for example, when scientists say that they managed to use this particle and contact other particle in the moon at the same instant, it is (probably) because they are linked in one of those dimensions. Not in our 3, for sure, but possibly in the 7th or 10th (just especulating here) dimension.

As for the center, it still exists. But it's rather hard to find the center of something has hard has that, specially because you are not sure of the radius of the universe. We don't even know what's our distance from that center. Not even the direction.

[Ntrik_]

Originally Posted by tskaze

Ive looked it up on the internet, but i dont understand. how cant there be a center of the univeres? If a figure is 3 dimensional, it follows that it has a center, as in a point where the edges are all equidistant from that point. the most common analogy is that the universe is like a baloon, and there is no center on a ballon. but it would seem to me that we are not on the universe but within it. Could someone here explain this to me?

Why would you even want to find out about centre of the universe? Who cares? :s

[tskaze]

Originally Posted by N_Edd

Why would you even want to find out about centre of the universe? Who cares? :s

partly because of pure intellectual curiosity, partly because its odd that a 3 dimensional (althought that seems to be contested) figure always has a center, and im always told the universe doesnt. it doesnt follow.

anyway, so this would mean that there was a center, but we cant find it. cant we tell about how large the universe is and look another direction and see how far the other side is and therefore determine our position?

[Carrot Man]

its earth

[TrongaMonga]

Well, you sure can, if you know how to look into 11 dimensions

Besides, it's more accepted that the universe has the form of a saddle, rather than a simple sphere.

[tskaze]

actually isnt the saddle model what it would look like if the universe were above critical density? anyway, wouldnt measuring the center be found only in the 3rd dimension because other dimensions would be measure different ways? for example, you can measure the universe in both space and time, but you dont actually measure it in spacetime because they are sperate.

[TrongaMonga]

Time is the temporal dimension, it has nothing to do with space (geometrically speaking).

anyway, so this would mean that there was a center, but we cant find it. cant we tell about how large the universe is and look another direction and see how far the other side is and therefore determine our position?

Well, you can do it for 1 dimension, 2 dimensions and 3 dimensions. Why not for 11? There shouldn't be a problem, as long as you can understand how 11 dimensions work

So, unless it changes with time, there is no problem in finding the center of the universe if it has one, or if it is a normal geometric form like a 11 dimensions sphere.

[Pains Requiem]

but ive always heard the universe is infinate, so how can something infinate have a center?
in numbers (assume that negative numbers arent really numbers, cause how can you physically show a negative object?), you can start with 1, and go all the way to 350 sextillion and the numbers will just keep going and going, so how can you possibly say there is a center, or middle number, when it comes to numbers?

[TrongaMonga]

I think it's more accepted nowadays (by scientist) that the universe is not infinite. It has to do with masses and whatnot.

[Carrot Man]

are u sure the universe is infinite? i mean, what if its like having death rate and birth rate? we lose some people(death rate) but we gain some too(birth rate). From what i was told, the universe is always expanding and always losing galaxies...rambling...

[Pains Requiem]

it loses galaxies, yeah, because stars explode all the time and anything around it goes with it, but remember, matter cant be created, or destroyed so its not losing objects in the galaxy- the latter material just floats in space.
it just changed form.

[tskaze]

nope it has an edge, although im pretty sure the scientific community isnt exactly sure what/where that edge is. cant be infinite anyway, because im guessing you know the universe is expanding, and an infinite thing cant expand.

whats outside of the universe, if anything, now that might be infinite.

[Carrot Man]

Originally Posted by tskaze

nope it has an edge, although im pretty sure the scientific community isnt exactly sure what/where that edge is. cant be infinite anyway, because im guessing you know the universe is expanding, and an infinite thing cant expand.

whats outside of the universe, if anything, now that might be infinite.

think of it this way,

if u were a programmer and wrote a code loop that would repeat hi untill a statement is proven true(which you set to never happen), the code will output Hi an infinite number of times.

Have you ever thought that the universe as a whole doesnt expand itself, but the insides of it do?

[TrongaMonga]

Man, that makes as much sense as saying that the center of a infinite sphere is here.

[Bret]

There has to be a center, we just can't measure it yet.

[Nicholas The Slide]

well, even if the universe if infinite, then there is a center. because think about a line..any point on a line is a bisector, the dead center. same with a plane, so yeah.

[Jimbo]

if the big bang theroy is true,then wouldint the center of the universe be where the big bang happened?

[Nicholas The Slide]

hmm, interesting. maybe, but that would assume that the universe expanded in a perfectly uniform phere areound the big-bang..unlikely, but a good idea.

[Jimbo]

well the big bang theroy states somewhat,that everything in the universe is moving outward