Proff of GOD through mathmatics

[TrongaMonga]

Originally Posted by I_Robbie

can you prove its not thare?

Sure. Cross the border. If you trip in an invisible line, it's there.

[BlueCheeseKilla]

"how do you know, were you there?"

the only defense a christian has.

or in this case, a quaker who just likes to argue.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by BlueCheeseKilla

"how do you know, were you there?"

the only defense a christian has.

or in this case, a quaker who just likes to argue.

"Prove it"

The only defense people who don't believe in God have.

Point of this, don't bothering pointing out the obvious, it wastes everybody time. Not that I agree with this mathematical aspect of proving God, but you pulling that kind of bs does draw my attention. Just because you cannot prove something exists does not prove that it does not exist.

[WilliamDell]

People have every right to say that they want proof of something's existence before they invest time and belief into it, seeing as how so many times people will work against each other all in the name of self-betterment. People have a fear of getting hurt or "screwed over" by someone or something else and people have felt that religion has not helped them but has hurt them more than it can ever help them. This happens since religions put power into human hands and humans have devised ways to manipulate interpretations and whatnot to work to their advantage. Many examples are seen in colts or televangelists who are always asking for money for THEIR cause and that it is right for whatever reason.

Math is something that is made to be precise and to provide proof of the abstract as well as the concrete. Not everyone requires absolute concrete proof in order to believe in God, and that is proven by the fact that many people have believed and still continue to believe in modern times in a supreme being, and people cling to those beliefs furiously at times. Everyone has a right to have independent thought and that has created many differences, and what I was talking about above (a universal formula to unite all science) is something that works to put aside differences we may think we have.

People often times have egos that prevent them from seeing the entire truth of a given situation since they will cling to what they know (or think they know) about something and will often times refuse to believe something contradictory right away because people like to settle into a state of normalcy (which is different for everyone) that the person is the most comfortable in. For instance, not everyone supports gay marriage and when those people feel that their ideas are threatened they get upset and can sometimes take very drastic actions to keep things as they are.

I personally believe in God (whoever or whatever He/She/They/It are) and my views of God allow me to have a stable since of normalcy since I have so many hypotheses about God, creation, and human evolution. Also because I have kept an overall open mind I have allowed myself to maintain that state of homeostasis easily. Now what does that have to do with math? Well little at the moment, since math isn't used to determine the functioning/problems with the brain (not that I'm aware of anyways), but I would think that in some ways, math would offer some explanations of how or why our brains function as they do. Once math can do something like that, we will truly be one step closer to finding or understanding God and the world would be so much simpler to us.

[minny]

I made my own God and he owns you all

[l33t 0n3]

@tipsy ...and the fact that you can generate no proof is what prooves our point... ^^

@robbie How the hell do you consider a border proof of god? That's a man made fictional idea, which is also imaginary. God didn't place the borders there, sheesh. And yes, there is 'middle ground' on the US and canadian border, where they check and screen you. I actually think it's owned by Canada, but if it is middle ground, how do you proove god?

[I_Robbie]

when I started this thread I Worded things a little badly. Im not really trying to prove god (anymore at least). Im just thinking out loud. I didnt know thare was a middle ground. and Im not concidering the border proof of god. I think the topic has focused more to the subject of infinity then god now. the boreders, i thought, were infinity small.

and Dell, yer making alot of sence. Keep talking.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by l33t 0n3

@tipsy ...and the fact that you can generate no proof is what prooves our point... ^^

I don't think you understand what I am saying. I can say that exact same thing in the exact opposite way, for example:
"The fact that you can generate no proof God doesn't exist proves my point."
That sentence goes absolutely nowhere and niether does yours. I only posted that you statement is incorrect because it goes absolutely nowhere. One argument supported by no proof is no better than another supported by no proof. Please get it through your head that two unproved statements cannot disprove each other.

[I_Robbie]

ok tipsy, how does this sound? "I have an invisable friend who will make you feel bad when you did if yer not his friend. However i have no proof that he exists. But you cant proof that he doesnt exsist so by defalt he does."

[l33t 0n3]

This isn't the thread for this, but w/e

As we discover more, we are inching our way in discovering the origins of the universe. When the day comes where a theory becomes agreeable, you may see my point. I don't want to argue, since at this point, there isn't much credible proof in the existance of god, and that he does not exist. It'll get us nowhere.

@Robbie- the only infinity would be the universe, and that is not prooven. There could be a limit to how far it extends, but most view it as an infinity.

[WilliamDell]

What you two are getting at is true in that we can't prove that God exists in the supernatural sense because we don't have all of the right equipment to prove such a thing. I have no idea what kind of equipment would be needed to prove such a thing, though in reality no real scientist is looking to find a supernatural god because proving that existence would not better man-kind and the mere idea would give him little support such as grants in order to carry out that research (though I guess the way Bush is he would do such a thing or maybe not, I don't understand how the guy works).

I guess I'll address the whole line thing people have been talking about in this thread. Lines (true lines) are something used in math because in math we can have situations in which things can be perfect because we can remove variables and make things the way we want for given situations. Lines don't exist in the real world, at least not that I'm aware of; not even rays of light are lines, namely because a line extends to infinity in 2 directions and light rays are rays (though really they aren't perfect rays since they are bent by gravity and can be defracted and reflected by matter). I wouldn't think even a computer could create a perfect line segment in the real world unless it had the correct tools, whatever those may be, though it may be able to easily calculate lines, rays, and segments easily.

As I said those are things created for mathematical purposes and don't really have a real world counter-part. Now how this goes along with proving God, I don't know, but really (I think someone may have said something similar to this, maybe not) I'm not sure if humans can really truly comprehend a true real world line or ray in their entirety since they extend to infinity and infinity is, well, infinite and therefore has no end, I would think that comprehending that would take an entire life time or more. It would be impossible to see the entirety of such a thing since it extends into infinity in both directions.

I've heard people argue that the only way to truly fathom such a thing would be to be a supreme being (at least supreme to humans) since so far I don't think our minds can truly grasp infinity, seeing as how no one has seen such a thing (if it is truly able to be seen by our eyes). I personally think the universe is infinite in that it is expanding and if you think about it: would there just be a barrier keeping you from going any further if you reached the edge of the universe (the furthest point/radius/whatever to where the matter, energy, and whatever else has reached at its furthest from the center of the universe).

That's something I have a belief in, but I can't prove it. God is somehing people have a belief in but can't prove. That doesn't make either of those statements true and I don't think either of them is completely false if you look at them with an open-mind and some knowledge. I personally don't know all of the details of all of the theories of the creation of the universe or of the expanding universe theories, but I have a grasp of what they are about. I can't remember if I said this before but think about this last statement. Most people don't think about how universal expansion is affecting their daily lives or of how the prescence of God (or lack there of) is affecting them as they conduct themselves in daily routines, but these things can affect is in unseen ways since we are all bound to the same rules in this universe and even when you think you're breaking law of nature (in real life not on school work ), you are not really doing so, you are discovering something new that is part of the vast unknown that remains out there.

[Ultmose]

Originally Posted by I_Robbie

I didnt think thare was a god before. But now I think that what I am about to tell you can have only one explanation: that God exists.
First off Im pretty shure that people know about points and lines. Points are infinately small and lines are a connection between two points which are also infinately thin. Now say we have a box which is 4'x4'x4'. We will call slices 4 feet high and 4 feet wide. Lets say that you had a slice of this box that is 4 feet long. You would have one slice. Lets say you thought of the box as 4 slices of one foot each. if you keep making more slices and makeing the slices thinner and thinner and you do this for an infinnity you will get to an infinate amount of slices. It could be said that the box is an infinate amount of slices that just have not been slices yet. Now if you add somthing that is infinately thin together with somthing elce that is infanitly thin will it get any bigger? One would have to add an infinate amout of slices for an infinatey for anyting to exist. One would have to do this with everything in the universe for an infinatey and they would have to do it faster then an infinatley small time period. Who is doing this? Is it humans? No, It is not possible of us to do this. Thare is only one being who has the power to do this task: God.



If anyone has any questions about this post them and I will explane them. I know I didnt explane this very well but I just had this revolation a few hours ago and I havent had much time to colect my thoughts.

someone might have posted this before, but im too lazy to read through all the post


but yeah you are jsut saying what everyone else says... something you cannpt explain come up so you assume god did it...

you say no one has the power to do it excet god.. well you dont know that, maybe on some distant planet some advanced creatures can, and this is just sas believable as you saing that god did it

[KillThePreppies]

Originally Posted by I_Robbie

@ tipsy

First of you support bush you you probly dont know what the hell your talking about. secondly, what about quarks or whatever there called? thare is somthing smaller then an atom.

Anyone who doesn't know what a quark is off the top of his head, or furthermore cannot spell "there," cannot possibly prove the existence of the Almighty, something that has been unsuccessfully attempted for thousands of years, much less prove His existence through mathematics, which requires a grasp of the numerical arts that science itself has yet to achieve.

In stupid-people speak: shut up.

[Undead Cheese]

Originally Posted by l33t 0n3

There could be a limit to how far it extends, but most view it as an infinity.

I was always under the impression that most viewed it as finite but ever-expanding.

[TrongaMonga]

Most viewed is not the same as the most known scientific theory. And that's not that one either.

The most accepted theory is that it is growing, but it'll get to a time where it'll stop, and it'll then either estabelize (sp...), or it will start coming back to the beggining, because of the force of the mass.

But then again, most people view it as infinite, because most people believe in god.

[I_Robbie]

Originally Posted by KillThePreppies

Anyone who doesn't know what a quark is off the top of his head, or furthermore cannot spell "there," cannot possibly prove the existence of the Almighty, something that has been unsuccessfully attempted for thousands of years, much less prove His existence through mathematics, which requires a grasp of the numerical arts that science itself has yet to achieve.

In stupid-people speak: shut up.

I was just saying thare was somthing smaller then an atom. An atom was not the end all. oh and thanks for the witty comment at the end. I love it when retards dont read all the posts and just say shit that has already been done and over.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by I_Robbie

ok tipsy, how does this sound? "I have an invisable friend who will make you feel bad when you did if yer not his friend. However i have no proof that he exists. But you cant proof that he doesnt exsist so by defalt he does."

If you have read my post with comprehension you would understand I am not saying that at all. I am not saying whether he exists at all or not, I am stating that him saying a statement with no proof and me saying a statement with no proof niehter proves or disproves God. The point of the whole post was that posting pointless opinioned backed facts (which isn't a fact) doesn't prove anything. I am not saying he exists by default, I am saying that non-provable statements niether prove nor disprove his existence.

[Onmyoji the Hidden]

Originally Posted by Korittke

This is the worst attempt at proving God I have ever heard in my entire life.

YES! Not only is this quote right to the point, for some reason it is also extremely funny to me. Every Christian that is running around this website posting their religious butt-crackery all over this site needs to realize one thing: YOU WILL NEVER MAKE US BELIEVE!!! EVER!!! This argument is the most hackneyed debate of all time. Neither of our camps will ever see things the other's way. Let's argue about something that will have deists and atheists on the both sides of the issue.

One more thing, us atheist wouldn't have such a problem with you guys if you guys weren't so outrageous in the profession of your faith. Just relax. It's O.K. if people dont believe in God (just like it's o.k. with me, and most of my athiest comrades, if you believe in God). Now that I think about it, most of the people that I am friends with believe in God.

WHAT THE HELL AM I SAYING? Theist/atheist arguments are fun!!! FIRE AWAY!!!

[I_Robbie]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

If you have read my post with comprehension you would understand I am not saying that at all. I am not saying whether he exists at all or not, I am stating that him saying a statement with no proof and me saying a statement with no proof niehter proves or disproves God. The point of the whole post was that posting pointless opinioned backed facts (which isn't a fact) doesn't prove anything. I am not saying he exists by default, I am saying that non-provable statements niether prove nor disprove his existence.

I was just trying to say that it is way harder to prove then it is to disprove that somthing exists if you have no phisical proff.

[KillThePreppies]

Well I think that putting people like this I_Robbie fellow on Earth proves that God has a rather dry sense of humor.