Russian and USA are both losers in my eyes.

[Hot Action Akule]

Nuclear weapons arent something to brag about. i'm sure everyone will say the same thing if you ask them. But i thought it was... ironic... and typical of human nature to take this sensational technology with unlimited potential and focusing it on weapon technology. I understand that there was a war going on at the time, but im sure that Otto Hahn and his associate, whos name escapes me (She actually did most of the work, but Otto got credit for it mainly because they had to be published in his name because she was a female. Long story...) would not have wanted his invention to lead to the worlds largest and most destructive weapon ever created. its true. We are our own worst enemy. Imagin a world with no war, no weapons. Where the NOTION of weapons doesnt even exist. We'd be so far advanced... we'd have reached far beyond the stars, and have technology our minds cant even comprehend. All the big diseases would probably have some sort of treatment for it, where you wouldnt have to die from aids or cancer. All this money that we pour into weapons could be better spent on these fields. Its an impossible concept i know. Because of free will, we have the choice to do what we want with technology and there will always be someone to push against the grain of society, trying to bring everyone down. but if Nuclear weapons werent ever invented, and if all the worlds big nations (GB, USA, China, India, Japan, hell all of europe, Israel, ect.) were under the rule of the UN and the like, there would be no wars because NO country, no matter how strong, would try and go up against Russia, the US, all of us combined. Maybe its too naive to hope for a better world where any... thought of war didnt exist. But think about it. If we all banded together, got rid of individual rulers and had our "presidents" ect. form a united nations kind of council, there would be no one stupid enough to try and go up against us. I dont see the point of war. Why would you even want to go and nuke another country? Why would you want to send thousands or millions of young men to their death? i cant figure this out.... war is absolutely pointless. Prejudice and racism too. I cant see any intelligant reason why you would hate someone different than you. There isnt one. If you fear something, and lash out against it, you're jsut being stupid and inviting more violence. Violence begots Violence. Ok i guess im done ranting, but discuss... i cant see the pros of nuclear weapons or war or any sort of military technology when the money we pour into it could be better spent on medical technology, or science or something. Education maybe. Im not saying we'd have a utopia, because thats an impossible notion to acheive because my utopia isnt neccissarily yours. Im dont ranting.... discuss. And no i dont know how my rant about nuclear technology and a bunch of horney egotistical violent kids with penis envy's debates turned into what you read now.

[TrongaMonga]

It has almost always been the war time when science gives the biggest jumps. War's only good side is that it forces people to do something original in order to beat the enemies.

As you said, without wars, we'd be in the stars already. I highly doubt it. Let me give you one example that is related to this one, my own country example (no, it's not a patriot act).

Unless you haven't never read anything I said in these forums, you'd probably know already that it was my country that started the biggest exploration campaign ever to be made. The rest of the world (Europe, North Africa and Middle East, that is ) was just stupidly afraid, and didn't need a thing...

Now, Spain wanted to attach us. So, what did we do? We started looking at other places for lands and resources that would allow us to buy better weapons from other European countries, in order to defeat any Spanish attack (and we managed to).

That was a very short, not fully complete, explanation of the example, but I do believe you know what I mean.

Want another example? The US Military. The most perfect example is that of the plane. The Wright Brothers sold their plans to the US Military, and then they developed better planes, for war and transportation (correct me, if I'm wrong).

Or perhaps you want rocketry, highly developed by Germans in WWII, or the well known nuclear plants, made possible by WWII as well?

[Kuzmich]

Originally Posted by Akule

Nuclear weapons arent something to brag about. i'm sure everyone will say the same thing if you ask them. But i thought it was... ironic... and typical of human nature to take this sensational technology with unlimited potential and focusing it on weapon technology. I understand that there was a war going on at the time, but im sure that Otto Hahn and his associate, whos name escapes me (She actually did most of the work, but Otto got credit for it mainly because they had to be published in his name because she was a female. Long story...) would not have wanted his invention to lead to the worlds largest and most destructive weapon ever created. its true. We are our own worst enemy. Imagin a world with no war, no weapons. Where the NOTION of weapons doesnt even exist. We'd be so far advanced... we'd have reached far beyond the stars, and have technology our minds cant even comprehend. All the big diseases would probably have some sort of treatment for it, where you wouldnt have to die from aids or cancer. All this money that we pour into weapons could be better spent on these fields. Its an impossible concept i know. Because of free will, we have the choice to do what we want with technology and there will always be someone to push against the grain of society, trying to bring everyone down. but if Nuclear weapons werent ever invented, and if all the worlds big nations (GB, USA, China, India, Japan, hell all of europe, Israel, ect.) were under the rule of the UN and the like, there would be no wars because NO country, no matter how strong, would try and go up against Russia, the US, all of us combined. Maybe its too naive to hope for a better world where any... thought of war didnt exist. But think about it. If we all banded together, got rid of individual rulers and had our "presidents" ect. form a united nations kind of council, there would be no one stupid enough to try and go up against us. I dont see the point of war. Why would you even want to go and nuke another country? Why would you want to send thousands or millions of young men to their death? i cant figure this out.... war is absolutely pointless. Prejudice and racism too. I cant see any intelligant reason why you would hate someone different than you. There isnt one. If you fear something, and lash out against it, you're jsut being stupid and inviting more violence. Violence begots Violence. Ok i guess im done ranting, but discuss... i cant see the pros of nuclear weapons or war or any sort of military technology when the money we pour into it could be better spent on medical technology, or science or something. Education maybe. Im not saying we'd have a utopia, because thats an impossible notion to acheive because my utopia isnt neccissarily yours. Im dont ranting.... discuss. And no i dont know how my rant about nuclear technology and a bunch of horney egotistical violent kids with penis envy's debates turned into what you read now.

If we didn't have weapons we would fight with sticks and stones. We would always fight because one nationality will always want to be superior to another, the cultures are too different to just unite, without the use of force from one side but then its not uniting its absorbing.

I noticed the fact how you didn't include Russia as one of the big countries, do you think this show of your ignorance hurts me in any way?

Anyways back on topic. People are diverse they have their own different ways of life, and they want to stick to them, people are proud to be a part of their nation, to carry their nation's great heritage (well i am talking about my nation in this case), they simply don't want to unite. People have different interests, individual people, and it is in our nature for we are still animals if you dig deeper inside, to not sit down and solve our differences but to use violence. Violence is what this world was meant to live by, the strong dominate the weak, its simple law of nature, it has its own reflection in human civilization. You can't make everybody happy, simple as that.

[B~E]

A meme is a unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another. Its the cultural equivalent of a gene.
A gene tells a cell what to do, what to become. In turn, the cells, together with others cells, and moved by the same gene, form complete beings, who, in turn, compete betwen each other.
Well, a meme is to a person what a gene is to a cell. A meme tells the persone how to behave, what to be, and, more importantly, who must you love and who must you hate. And after that, people, all moved by the same meme, form groups, society, nations, and well, what wis called a super organism. Take how christianity or communism, and hate for various groups, united peoples and nations into doing great (but notnecessarily good) things.

But why are those groups trowing themselves at each others' troath through the violence and wars you talked about ? To be honest, I had the answer in the book I've found all the aforementioned informations, which was written by a nutjob. But it went along the lines of something like violence being nature's way of testing and improving each other, and that the same process of competition happen at the individual level than at the social level.

And you could see what I'm speaking of everywhere in history ; barbarians becoming powerfull nations, who are, in turn, killed by other barbarians latter off. Really, you can find tons of parallel betwen basic natural lawa and behaviors and the way large social group act.

[Tipsy]

I think this thread really should be called human nature is a loser in my eyes. Inventions such as gunpowder which was originally created for practical purposes was changed into a weapon. Everything that has the potential to become a weapon probably will because of human nature's urging for people to sin.

Also, I agree with Tronga about the technology. Wars were the cause of a multitude of inventions that were invented for war and later became for practical uses and vise versa. Wars also created some of the greatest civilizations in history such as Rome or China.

As for if all of the 'big' countries banded together I still would see people standing up against them. Hell, look at Bin Laden, he is taking on the most powerful country in the world and he is so far getting away with it.

As for peace, I think inevitably it will only be gained through war. As the Romans said, "If you want peace, pick up your sword (in Latin)". I think the only way earth will be united as a whole will be through some attempt such as Hitler's thousand year reich. The question is will the means justify the end to create a better society.

I noticed the fact how you didn't include Russia as one of the big countries, do you think this show of your ignorance hurts me in any way?

Is it me, or do you use some form of the word ignorant in every post?

[Hot Action Akule]

Originally Posted by TrongaMonga

It has almost always been the war time when science gives the biggest jumps. War's only good side is that it forces people to do something original in order to beat the enemies.

As you said, without wars, we'd be in the stars already. I highly doubt it. Let me give you one example that is related to this one, my own country example (no, it's not a patriot act).

Unless you haven't never read anything I said in these forums, you'd probably know already that it was my country that started the biggest exploration campaign ever to be made. The rest of the world (Europe, North Africa and Middle East, that is ) was just stupidly afraid, and didn't need a thing...

Now, Spain wanted to attach us. So, what did we do? We started looking at other places for lands and resources that would allow us to buy better weapons from other European countries, in order to defeat any Spanish attack (and we managed to).

That was a very short, not fully complete, explanation of the example, but I do believe you know what I mean.

Want another example? The US Military. The most perfect example is that of the plane. The Wright Brothers sold their plans to the US Military, and then they developed better planes, for war and transportation (correct me, if I'm wrong).

Or perhaps you want rocketry, highly developed by Germans in WWII, or the well known nuclear plants, made possible by WWII as well?

the developement of nuclear technology into a commercial, none militant invention didnt start until well after world war II. I'll find you the history time line that prompted this thread.

Originally Posted by Kuzmich

If we didn't have weapons we would fight with sticks and stones. We would always fight because one nationality will always want to be superior to another, the cultures are too different to just unite, without the use of force from one side but then its not uniting its absorbing.

I noticed the fact how you didn't include Russia as one of the big countries, do you think this show of your ignorance hurts me in any way?

Anyways back on topic. People are diverse they have their own different ways of life, and they want to stick to them, people are proud to be a part of their nation, to carry their nation's great heritage (well i am talking about my nation in this case), they simply don't want to unite. People have different interests, individual people, and it is in our nature for we are still animals if you dig deeper inside, to not sit down and solve our differences but to use violence. Violence is what this world was meant to live by, the strong dominate the weak, its simple law of nature, it has its own reflection in human civilization. You can't make everybody happy, simple as that.

"would try and go up against Russia, the US, all of us combined."

are you really that dumb? I just named the most random countries that came to mind. Try reading the whole post.

Do not misunderstand me. I will still ALWAYS stand up for what i think is right, and i will always be ready to fight for that i beleive to be right. I wont, however, fight for what i think isnt necissary. I wont fight for something that could be solved otherwise.

[TrongaMonga]

Actually, the only way we'd get united is if we had an alien invasion. Then we'd definetly unite. Unless, of course, there's always those selfish leaders who only think on their bloody country. But, if the aliens were strong enough, we'd be either dead or united.

[Onmyoji the Hidden]

Originally Posted by Akule

Nuclear weapons arent something to brag about. i'm sure everyone will say the same thing if you ask them. But i thought it was... ironic... and typical of human nature to take this sensational technology with unlimited potential and focusing it on weapon technology. I understand that there was a war going on at the time, but im sure that Otto Hahn and his associate, whos name escapes me (She actually did most of the work, but Otto got credit for it mainly because they had to be published in his name because she was a female. Long story...) would not have wanted his invention to lead to the worlds largest and most destructive weapon ever created. its true. We are our own worst enemy. Imagin a world with no war, no weapons. Where the NOTION of weapons doesnt even exist. We'd be so far advanced... we'd have reached far beyond the stars, and have technology our minds cant even comprehend. All the big diseases would probably have some sort of treatment for it, where you wouldnt have to die from aids or cancer. All this money that we pour into weapons could be better spent on these fields. Its an impossible concept i know. Because of free will, we have the choice to do what we want with technology and there will always be someone to push against the grain of society, trying to bring everyone down. but if Nuclear weapons werent ever invented, and if all the worlds big nations (GB, USA, China, India, Japan, hell all of europe, Israel, ect.) were under the rule of the UN and the like, there would be no wars because NO country, no matter how strong, would try and go up against Russia, the US, all of us combined. Maybe its too naive to hope for a better world where any... thought of war didnt exist. But think about it. If we all banded together, got rid of individual rulers and had our "presidents" ect. form a united nations kind of council, there would be no one stupid enough to try and go up against us. I dont see the point of war. Why would you even want to go and nuke another country? Why would you want to send thousands or millions of young men to their death? i cant figure this out.... war is absolutely pointless. Prejudice and racism too. I cant see any intelligant reason why you would hate someone different than you. There isnt one. If you fear something, and lash out against it, you're jsut being stupid and inviting more violence. Violence begots Violence. Ok i guess im done ranting, but discuss... i cant see the pros of nuclear weapons or war or any sort of military technology when the money we pour into it could be better spent on medical technology, or science or something. Education maybe. Im not saying we'd have a utopia, because thats an impossible notion to acheive because my utopia isnt neccissarily yours. Im dont ranting.... discuss. And no i dont know how my rant about nuclear technology and a bunch of horney egotistical violent kids with penis envy's debates turned into what you read now.

All these points have been raised many times, by many the emotional idealist (myself included, this post is not intended to disparage). Unfortunately none of these situations will ever manifest on our planet. Peace is dependant on war, for the concept war is contained in the definition of peace (peace = the absence of war). Yin and Yan, another very old idea. As for too much money being spent on war, that is something that could realistically be changed and I agree with you, wholeheartedly, that most of the funds allocated to the military could be better spent on social program. How about giving the soldiers a pay raise? The monthly emolument of the average enlisted person is a pittance. They are the ones who do all the back breaking work, not the sybarites in Washington, they should get paid accordingly. And yes, education and healthcare should also get a financial boost as well. Don't hold your breath though.

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

If aliens invaded, if they had the tech to get here from deep space then I think they would wipe us out united or not .

If we killed everyone and started again under one rule it still wouldn't work, people would rebel and try from their own clans or nations. It is human nature to fight maybe in thousands of years because of how tame we have become that instict could be over written, or maybe their could be a drug or something to supress it.

[l33t 0n3]

"As for if all of the 'big' countries banded together I still would see people standing up against them. Hell, look at Bin Laden, he is taking on the most powerful country in the world and he is so far getting away with it."

Well, he's getting away with it, but after he lost the element of surprise, there is nothing more he could actually do but make videos ^^;

Hmm, this is one of the only times I disagree with Akule. If the world went under UN orders, it would remain the same, or get worse. Nobody would oppose those countries listed, but they would continue wars against neighboring countries. It's fine how it is; People do not oppose the US or Russia because if they do, the US will kill their economy, and the one they attacked would unleash hell onto them... The US would support Russia, and vice versa because both the US and Russia do not want to be in conflict with eachother again.