Thought on homosexuality and same sex marriage

[amrtin77]

BE i read the first post. everything is true and a pretty airtight argument except

since the state is secular.

if that were true the government would get itself out of marraige completely. the government SHOULD keep religion out of itself, but marraige is proof that it doesnt.

[B~E]

Originally Posted by WildfireFX

Sorry, just tired of hearing half assed theories and hateful people.

Hate ? You wouldn't accuse me of being hatefull, homophobic, or anything else simply because I "dare" challenge the mass belief that homosexual can marry,right ?

Originally Posted by amrtin77

BE i read the first post. everything is true and a pretty airtight argument except

Haha, so mister righty agree with me, for once. =)

[amrtin77]

Haha, so mister righty agree with me, for once. =)

well, im for homosexual marraige, or taking marraige out of the government for good. the government has no right to mess with marraige. but as long as marraige is a government program with benifits it should be accessible to everyone.

i was just saying that your argument is airtight *except* that the government obviously is not totally secular, even if should be. this is why i think the government should get out of marraige completely or allow any two adults to get married.



mr righty..? im more liberal than conservative

[B~E]

Your all for taking the government out of marriage, but this doesn't take out the religion out of it, since marriage (at the exception of civil marriage) have a religious meaning, by definition.
And if marriage still has a religious meaning, well, like Kusmich said much clearer than me, they just can't marry, because most religous dogma are strongly anti-homosexuality.
Actualy, I might be mistaking, you seem to think that if marriage have a religious meaning, its because of the state's control over it.

Anyway, I remember when I used to post here, one year and a half ago. We used to argue against each other on issues such as the possible war in Irak, and stuf like that, and if I remember corectly, you wheren't realy liberal... =P

But maybe you changed.

On another note, I posted the very same topic in a T.A.T.U forum, and the replies I got are so offensive and closeminded its not even funny.

Its a long read, and I'm really not expecting anybody to go through it, but if you have an hard ass, and want to laugh at idiotic replies, go ahead.

http://www.tatu.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13401

[amrtin77]

Originally Posted by Black~Enthusiasm

Your all for taking the government out of marriage, but this doesn't take out the religion out of it, since marriage (at the exception of civil marriage) have a religious meaning, by definition.
And if marriage still has a religious meaning, well, like Kusmich said much clearer than me, they just can't marry, because most religous dogma are strongly anti-homosexuality.
Actualy, I might be mistaking, you seem to think that if marriage have a religious meaning, its because of the state's control over it.

nononono im saying that because marraige is a religious institution the government has no right to get involved. but because it is now involved with a religious institutuion, it must be secular about it. everyone should be treated equal in the eyes of the government.

im not sure if im explaining myself good enough.. now that marraige is a government institution it has to treat everyone equal. government cant pick and choose who to let get married. let anyone, or no one.

if the government will not be secular about marraige it should take marraige out of government hands, and let churches go about their buisness marrying whoever they want. but the government cannot pick and choose who to let get married like a private body like a church.

Anyway, I remember when I used to post here, one year and a half ago. We used to argue against each other on issues such as the possible war in Irak, and stuf like that, and if I remember corectly, you wheren't realy liberal... =P

But maybe you changed.

i have

edit:
oh my god i read some of those replies.. that place really is full of idiots..

B~E, I have read your words carefully. Homosexuality is not a defect. It is not like having a left hand. It is not a disease. Homosexuality is like having another sense. It is like being psychic. It is like being able to read minds. It is impossible for you to understand.

LMAO!

[Laharl]

My main problem with trying to make "Civil Unions" which have none of the benefits. It will just be a piece of paper! Where is the sense in that?

BE; thanks for trying to deny people their rights. I'll give you your trophy tomorrow.

[Kuzmich]

Can i get a trophy too? I deny people their rights all the time. Especially fags, since there is no logic in prooving your relationship to God, because god wants to see you dead.

[amrtin77]

what the hell are you talking about?

i have no clue idea what you were meaning to say..

[B)ushid(o]

Originally Posted by Kuzmich

Can i get a trophy too? I deny people their rights all the time. Especially fags, since there is no logic in prooving your relationship to God, because god wants to see you dead.

Some people have different interpretations of the Bible...

[B~E]

No, he's right, God believe homosexuality to be a sin. Then again, God said love your neibour, which mean the WE can't hate gays.

[N[U]TS]

Originally Posted by dreamcrusader

Liberals are always whining about the "seperation from church and state" so why are they trying to change the church? Isnt that "seperation from church and state"? I dont mind gays being married under like a civil union but this has me kinda agravated.

i saw somthing very disturbing today when i got home from church.... Kerry talking about polotics in a church..... seperation of church and state...pfft Just makes me hate Kerry even more. There is a time and place for that and church isnt one of them! :tnt

anyways back on topic....

i believe its more of they choose to be that way. Note: *more of* Sure u see porn stars doing it but yea they are paid. Gurls at school do it to turn guys on or to explore somthing different but what really drives them to want the same sex? Incest maybe? Abuse? Emotional break downs over opposite sex? there is more of this discusting stuff out there than u really think. Hell i dont think MJ was born gay. He always talked of abuse from his dad... hmmm question mark there.

just my 2 cents worth but im not crossing out the idea that some are born that way

[Tempest Storm]

Therefore, a religious marriage is bogus from the start, which mean they should content themselve of a civil union, since the state is secular.

Bullshit. There are churches out there that have no problem marrying gays. The Unitarian-Universalist Church is one of them. And what about the other religions out there that have no issue with homosexuality.

To only consider the Bible and certain dissenting denominations in the gay marriage debate is to ignore the voices of millions. This country wasn't founded on the Bible, nor should it be the only thing consulted in law making. Hell, it shouldn't even be considered at all when it comes to civil rights.

Liberals are always whining about the "seperation from church and state" so why are they trying to change the church? Isnt that "seperation from church and state"? I dont mind gays being married under like a civil union but this has me kinda agravated.

No one is forcing the Church to change. If gays to get gay marriage, no church would be forced to marry gays against their will.

My main problem with trying to make "Civil Unions" which have none of the benefits. It will just be a piece of paper! Where is the sense in that?

Actually, civil unions do provide the same rights as marriage.

i believe its more of they choose to be that way. Note: *more of* Sure u see porn stars doing it but yea they are paid. Gurls at school do it to turn guys on or to explore somthing different but what really drives them to want the same sex? Incest maybe? Abuse? Emotional break downs over opposite sex? there is more of this discusting stuff out there than u really think. Hell i dont think MJ was born gay. He always talked of abuse from his dad... hmmm question mark there.

There are those who are gay because of abuse, but those are a small minority. Most gays are normal ppl that were never abused.

[N[U]TS]

Originally Posted by Tempest Storm

There are those who are gay because of abuse, but those are a small minority. Most gays are normal ppl that were never abused.

i have yet to see any proof of this....

[B~E]

Originally Posted by Tempest Storm

Bullshit. There are churches out there that have no problem marrying gays. The Unitarian-Universalist Church is one of them. And what about the other religions out there that have no issue with homosexuality.

To only consider the Bible and certain dissenting denominations in the gay marriage debate is to ignore the voices of millions. This country wasn't founded on the Bible, nor should it be the only thing consulted in law making. Hell, it shouldn't even be considered at all when it comes to civil rights.

Ha, tempest storm, formerly spike, formerly masey, formerly mason. So, where are you at, as of now ?

First of all, this is an religious issue concerning the Western world only, and as such, christianity. So you really dont need to bring the "most religion dont regard homosexuality as a sin" argument. Furthermore, christianity, Islam, and Judéisme do, in fact, regard homosexuality as a sin, which only leave out buddism and hindou who dont care about homosexuality.

And I dont care if a handfull of churches do, in fact, marry gays. I'm much more interested in their rethoric.

[amrtin77]

Originally Posted by Black~Enthusiasm

Ha, tempest storm, formerly spike, formerly masey, formerly mason. So, where are you at, as of now ?

First of all, this is an religious issue concerning the Western world only, and as such, christianity. So you really dont need to bring the "most religion dont regard homosexuality as a sin" argument. Furthermore, christianity, Islam, and Judéisme do, in fact, regard homosexuality as a sin, which only leave out buddism and hindou who dont care about homosexuality.

And I dont care if a handfull of churches do, in fact, marry gays. I'm much more interested in their rethoric.

i dont care what the churches do. no one does. they dont have to marry anyone they dont want to. but when the government is involved (like they are with marraiges) they have to be secular. the government is not christianity, that is your arguments flaw.

[Tempest Storm]

Originally Posted by N[u]TS

i have yet to see any proof of this....

That must mean you have shitloads of evidence to the contrary. Please, prove me wrong. I mean, I'm only bi afterall, what the **** do I know, right?

Ha, tempest storm, formerly spike, formerly masey, formerly mason. So, where are you at, as of now ?

Lol, yea yea. I still remember when you were Dave Barry. And right now, I'm in Oklahoma, temporarily.

First of all, this is an religious issue concerning the Western world only, and as such, christianity. So you really dont need to bring the "most religion dont regard homosexuality as a sin" argument. Furthermore, christianity, Islam, and Judéisme do, in fact, regard homosexuality as a sin, which only leave out buddism and hindou who dont care about homosexuality.

Gay marriage is an issue all around the world. Though granted, not nearly as big as it is here, but still an issue nonetheless.

The entire Western World isn't Christian. Your arguement was that religious beliefs here in America all forbid homosexual marriage. That's obviously not true.

And why are you limiting religions down to the top 5? The number of Wiccans in North America doubles every couple years. Atheism/Secularism/Humanism is a very large "religious" group. Christians aren't the only ppl in America, just like draft dodgers aren't the only ones in Canada.

And I dont care if a handfull of churches do, in fact, marry gays. I'm much more interested in their rethoric.

Why not? Your arguement is that Christianity prohibits gay marriage, yet some denoms don't see it that way. Christians can't even get their shit straight, and they're trying to tell us how to live our lives.

[t.A.T.u97]

Originally Posted by amrtin77

edit:
oh my god i read some of those replies.. that place really is full of idiots..


LMAO!

I'm sorry to go off topic but the t.A.T.u boards do have more intelligent and mature people than battleforums will and did ever have.

[amrtin77]

The rest of your post was rather incoherent, so I won't say any more.

BE's post made perfect sense to me.

Homosexuality is like having another sense. It is like being psychic. It is like being able to read minds. It is impossible for you to understand.

..riighht...

It is a proven fact that homosexuals are intelligent, very intelligent. It is a proven fact homosexuals make more money on average than any other group, because of our intelligence.

id love to see a real study showing homos are any smarter than average people.

but you know what? B~E , you are a WINNER at life. People care what you think.
[/sarcasm]

oi, this thread is shit. Why is it still open? It's clear that nobody agrees with this random guy who decides to argue a point that is clearly not accepted among the people here.

theres a few quotes ipicked up there real fast. not EVERYONE there is stupid, but the vast majority sure as hell looks like they are.



you would think a bunch of gay people would be more accepting of different viewpoints... i guess not.

[Laharl]

Time for some truth to be said.

God does NOT hate homosexuality, he just hates "gay sex". That is to say that the bible is based on the theory that people wake up one day and think "Hmmm. I'm bored. Time to have gay sex", or something along that lines. That logic in itself is VERY faulty. Sorry to have to say it but... God does not persecute homosexuals, per say, but those who have "Gay sex"

Note: I AM a christian, and a homosexual one at that. I am not hated or persecuted any more than somebody who tells a little white lie, or steals a potatoe chip.

[Kuzmich]

People who are homosexuals, are homosexuals because of their sexual preferences, basically if you don't have "gay sex" you aren't a homosexual. You aren't prosecuted for the reason that Christianity does not have as much political power as it used to have. God hates homosexuals, if you are homosexual you can make yourself believe that you are a christian but that would go against that religion, so those who truly believe in God will not recognize you as a christian. The fact is that a marriage there you just go into appropriet department and sign papers stating that you are now married (and get all the tax benefits from it) is fine for gays. But marriage there you go to church and all that stuff is completely absurd, god doesn't want you to marry, god wants to see you on a steak. (I don't believe in God, but i still consider this illogical)