Thought on homosexuality and same sex marriage

[IceDevil9]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

I don't want the sacrament of marriage defiled just because two gay people want economic rewards.

Another generalisation. Who said all Gay people want to be married for is to have tax releifs? Is it humanly impossible for two people of the same sex to care and love for each other. I care and love dearly for my friend I've known for 6 years and I'm not gay.

How's this, I'll read your defense using the Bible, when you can come up with one.

-Frank :cool:

[amrtin77]

the STATE hasnt taken marraige away from religion. a church can amrry anyone they want... but they wont get any legal benifits. why? because the government is the only thing that can give out legal benifits. everyone who gets married now is married in the eyes of the state... and in the eyes of their religion if they wish. but it is not a requirment to be married by a church. why cant you understand that?

[Tipsy]

Another generalisation. Who said all Gay people want to be married for is to have tax releifs? Is it humanly impossible for two people of the same sex to care and love for each other. I care and love dearly for my friend I've known for 6 years and I'm not gay.

Read my argument in my last 20 some posts in this thread, this is just one of many examples.

How's this, I'll read your defense using the Bible, when you can come up with one.

Once again, read my other 20 some posts.

How many times must I repeat this:
Read the thread!
Read the thread!
Read the thread!

And now to respond to amrtin

the STATE hasnt taken marraige away from religion. a church can amrry anyone they want...

Marriage is religious sacrament. This is just talking about your the state need to be seperated from religion.

but they wont get any legal benifits. why? because the government is the only thing that can give out legal benifits.

Thats my point, the government should stay out of it and not give them.

everyone who gets married now is married in the eyes of the state... and in the eyes of their religion if they wish. but it is not a requirment to be married by a church. why cant you understand that?

As for this, you are still undergoing/attempting to undergo marriage which is considered a sacrament by the church. You can't change marriage just like you can't change that under normal circumstances if I drop a bowling ball gravity will make it fall. (extreme example, gets point across)

[amrtin77]

Thats my point, the government should stay out of it and not give them.

i can agree with that. government should get out of marraige alltogeather, and if someone wants married in the eyes of the church they can get that. no legal benifits or anything.

but now that marraige is a state institution that gives legal benifits, it must be secular. all or nothing.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by amrtin77

i can agree with that. government should get out of marraige alltogeather, and if someone wants married in the eyes of the church they can get that. no legal benifits or anything.

but now that marraige is a state institution that gives legal benifits, it must be secular. all or nothing.

To the Vatican (and me), it is always going to be if marriage should either:
1) Be kept to the laws defined the doctrine on the sacrament of marriage.
2) Remove marriage from a state institution and the church will once again have control over marriage.

It is one or the other, otherwise the thing will probably never go away.
Note: This is generalizing, you can read up on this to get more details if you wish.

Also, for the Ice guy:
If you want to prove to me that gay marriage is right, then do this:

My defense is based on Vatican Doctrine which comes through infallibility of the pope on making laws of the church (only the church, nothing else). Prove to me that God does not exist making the Vatican Doctrine invalid. Oh wait, you can't. You will no doubt respond with me to prove to you God exists. I can't. This was all shown in page 7. So go ahead and prove to me God does not exist and then you will win. Until then, this thread really needs to die.

[Hot Action Akule]

Um, whys it so bad for 2 people who are in love to get married? Seriously, you're a nice sexualist (for lack of a better word, "prick") but it doesnt change the fact that you are one. Thats like saying... this type of person cant go to my school or vote because it wasnt created with them in mind.

[sam_the_man]

its immoral and disgusting. Homosexuality is something that is by far unnatural, and is sickening. Same Sex marriage i believe is corrupting our society. Thats one good thing about bush, is that hes against it. (Besides the 99 thousand downfalls that bush also has.)

I dont think homosexuality will be ever stopped, but we shouldnt exactly promote it. And think about the ****in facts...Man and women were made to REPRODUCE. Its genetic, its how we were made. Leave it to mankind to pevert how we were created. (Who gives a **** if youre religious or not. "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" is a quote that basically says homosexuality is unnatural.)

Last time i checked, you cant make children via anal intercourse. (Oh ya .. isnt that one of the leading causes of aids in our country?)

[OMGLOLWTFPWN]

Originally Posted by sam_the_man

And think about the ****in facts...Man and women were made to REPRODUCE.

Ban condoms, birth control pills, oral sex, and masturbation then.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by TreeFrog123

Ban condoms, birth control pills, oral sex, and masturbation then.

The church would support it considering they are against all of those.

Um, whys it so bad for 2 people who are in love to get married? Seriously, you're a nice sexualist (for lack of a better word, "prick") but it doesnt change the fact that you are one. Thats like saying... this type of person cant go to my school or vote because it wasnt created with them in mind.

To go back to my murder examples. I am assuming you are a murderist (aka you don't support murder). Do you support people who commit crimes going to jail and losing rights and 'not going to your school' of 'voting'?

[IceDevil9]

Originally Posted by sam_the_man

its immoral and disgusting. Homosexuality is something that is by far unnatural, and is sickening. Same Sex marriage i believe is corrupting our society

Explain to me how homosexuality is 'corrupting' out society, that';s one of the funniest things I've ever heard of in my life.

Originally Posted by sam_the_man

I dont think homosexuality will be ever stopped, but we shouldnt exactly promote it. And think about the ****in facts...Man and women were made to REPRODUCE. Its genetic, its how we were made. Leave it to mankind to pevert how we were created. (Who gives a **** if youre religious or not. "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" is a quote that basically says homosexuality is unnatural.)

So we were meant to reproduce, and how is it perverting how we were created? People still make babies all the time, if you people yell for population control then you should be in favor of homosexuality. Actually being religious holds much bearing on the quote "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" because if you're not religous at all, then you may not even beleive in them.

Originally Posted by Tipsy

My defense is based on Vatican Doctrine which comes through infallibility of the pope on making laws of the church (only the church, nothing else).

I have no wya of proving God doesn't exist, and I never said I didn't beleive in him, I'm just not hardcore into anything about it besides the beleif. I'm really a diest. And how the the hell was The Pope able to make laws of the church anyway? Is all he had to do come up and say he spoke with God and God said he could make laws and everyone beleives him. How's this:

I spoke with God and it is God's Will fo rme to be the adminstrator of this forum and re-vamp the entire thing and change it bright pink. Do it because God said so!

-Frank :cool:

[Tipsy]

I have no wya of proving God doesn't exist, and I never said I didn't beleive in him, I'm just not hardcore into anything about it besides the beleif. I'm really a diest. And how the the hell was The Pope able to make laws of the church anyway? Is all he had to do come up and say he spoke with God and God said he could make laws and everyone beleives him. How's this:

I spoke with God and it is God's Will fo rme to be the adminstrator of this forum and re-vamp the entire thing and change it bright pink. Do it because God said so!

Prove your infallible on your adminastoring BF. If you want to learn about the pope's infallibility then click Here.

Explain to me how homosexuality is 'corrupting' out society, that';s one of the funniest things I've ever heard of in my life.

Thats pretty sad if it is one of the funniest things you have heard in your life. As for 'corrupting society' i'll break it down once again. This has already been mentioned before. Once again read the thread.

The common definition of corrupt is:
"to change from good to bad in morals, manners, or actions"
So in the sense of my argument, homosexual marriage becoming legal is bad morals, while it becoming banned is the good moarls. Homosexuality it obviously an action, so in the case of my argument, yes, by definition homosexuality it 'corrupting' our society.

So we were meant to reproduce, and how is it perverting how we were created? People still make babies all the time, if you people yell for population control then you should be in favor of homosexuality.

It is natural how we are created. The Vatican is calling for 'population control'.

[IceDevil9]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

The common definition of corrupt is:
"to change from good to bad in morals, manners, or actions"
So in the sense of my argument, homosexual marriage becoming legal is bad morals, while it becoming banned is the good moarls. Homosexuality it obviously an action, so in the case of my argument, yes, by definition homosexuality it 'corrupting' our society.

Depends on the individual person's morals, it's not against my morals at all. Only you Bible hugging Catholics make it 'against your morals' Why the hell should you do what the Pope says, he can say anything he wants and put the words 'God said so' somewhere in there and you'd all do it in a heartbeat.

And if you're in favor of 'population control' then 2 gay people doin' it shoulsd make oyu happy since they can **** their brasins out and never create a kid, thus preventing the population from growing, I think a constitutional amendment to ban gay marraige is against the consitituion itself. 'All men are created equal' so why should homosexuals not be given the same rights as heterosexuals, if the Constitution says al men are created gays are completely entitled to the same rights straight people are.

-Frank :cool:

[Lights]

The fact of the matter is simple. We are talking about secular, State-issued marriage licenses. Regardless of where it originated, that is what we are talking about. Regardless if some religious nuts find it 'perverted' or 'disgusting'. And regardless if the large majority of America's population doesn't like it. Gay's marrying does not infringe on the rights of any other citizen and should not be outlawed. That is how our government is supposed to work. This is an issue that has NO PLACE in the voting booth.

If two homosexual's decide they wish to take a step and marry, GOOD FOR THEM. There aren't any cameras in their bedrooms taping and forcing everyone else to watch and enjoy. It is their private, consentual, and mature decision for themselves. No different than an 18 year old girl and a 80 year old man. If they want to, GOOD FOR THEM. Let's all stay out of their bedrooms. No one is being 'corrupted' by this. It affects me none.


Their is no argument against homosexual marriages beyond the Bible and religious tradition. And as I recall, prayer isn't allowed in schools. This is a debate that shouldn't even be a debate. There is no debate.

[Tipsy]

Depends on the individual person's morals, it's not against my morals at all.

Once again, if you bothered to read the thread at all, you'll see that is the only argument here. It cannot be 'proven' right or wrong. It can only be shown as right or wrong through your morals. I have said it so many times, but actually read the thread please.

Only you Bible hugging Catholics make it 'against your morals' Why the hell should you do what the Pope says, he can say anything he wants and put the words 'God said so' somewhere in there and you'd all do it in a heartbeat.

Read the link I gave you in the last post. Also, I wish everyone who claimed to be catholic would stick to the Vatican teaching. Point of this, don't stereotype, just because someone says they are something does not mean that they follow what it is they say they are.

And if you're in favor of 'population control' then 2 gay people doin' it shoulsd make oyu happy since they can **** their brasins out and never create a kid, thus preventing the population from growing,

I don't know who brought up population control, but it sure wasn't part of my argument.

I think a constitutional amendment to ban gay marraige is against the consitituion itself. 'All men are created equal' so why should homosexuals not be given the same rights as heterosexuals, if the Constitution says al men are created gays are completely entitled to the same rights straight people are.

All men are created equal. Just not all acts are allowed. I'll go back to my murder examples just because they are extreme. If someone wants to murder someone else but controls their urge and doesn't, do you have anything against that? (I don't) Does that make it unconstitutional for someone to have murder made illegal because they want to do it but can't due to a law. Now, if someone has homosexual urges, do you have anything against that? (I don't). In the exact same sense, I believe murder is morally wrong just as homosexuality it morally wrong. Maybe not to the same degree, but still wrong either way. I don't see why having homosexuality is any different than murder, they are both morally wrong in opinion.

so why should homosexuals not be given the same rights as heterosexuals, if the Constitution says al men are created gays are completely entitled to the same rights straight people are

They do have the same rights. Hetersexual people will not be able to have homosexual activities and will be able to have heterosexual activities, and homosexuals will be able to have heterosexual activities but not homosexual activities. They still have the exact same rights.

The fact of the matter is simple. We are talking about secular, State-issued marriage licenses. Regardless of where it originated, that is what we are talking about. Regardless if some religious nuts find it 'perverted' or 'disgusting'. And regardless if the large majority of America's population doesn't like it. Gay's marrying does not infringe on the rights of any other citizen and should not be outlawed. That is how our government is supposed to work. This is an issue that has NO PLACE in the voting booth.

I basically addressed this with the reasons why the church does not want homosexual marriage, it's a few posts up I think.

If two homosexual's decide they wish to take a step and marry, GOOD FOR THEM. There aren't any cameras in their bedrooms taping and forcing everyone else to watch and enjoy. It is their private, consentual, and mature decision for themselves. No different than an 18 year old girl and a 80 year old man. If they want to, GOOD FOR THEM. Let's all stay out of their bedrooms. No one is being 'corrupted' by this. It affects me none.

No one is being corrupted, but a thing is being corrupted. Allowing homosexuals to marry is itself against the Christain definition of marriage and it defiles the sacrament of marriage.

Their is no argument against homosexual marriages beyond the Bible and religious tradition. And as I recall, prayer isn't allowed in schools. This is a debate that shouldn't even be a debate. There is no debate.

I agree with this completely, it is my beliefs/morals/ideas against your belifs/morals/ideas and niether can be proven wrong. This thread died after 7 pages and should have stayed dead because guess what, you can't prove me wrong and I can't prove you wrong. Please just let this thread die, niether side can be won!

[sam_the_man]

aids came from homosexuals.

homosexuality is becoming more and more supported, and growing as a result.

That seems like corruption to me.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by sam_the_man

aids came from homosexuals.

homosexuality is becoming more and more supported, and growing as a result.

That seems like corruption to me.

1) Aids came from a monkey
2) Heterosexual sex can also spread aids
3) There are many other ways to get aids
4) Homosexuality starting aids is a complete myth

[amrtin77]

I agree with this completely, it is my beliefs/morals/ideas against your belifs/morals/ideas and niether can be proven wrong.

almost. im starting to like you tipsy, while i disagree with damn near everything that you say you at least make sense.

let me tell you the flaw im seeing in your murder example. yes, murder and homosexuality are both widely considered morally wrong. that does not put them on even terms though. that isnt the only reason murder is illegal. murder takes someones life away, it kills people, taking away their right to life. homosexuality has no effect on anyone else at all.

[Lights]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

I agree with this completely, it is my beliefs/morals/ideas against your belifs/morals/ideas and niether can be proven wrong. This thread died after 7 pages and should have stayed dead because guess what, you can't prove me wrong and I can't prove you wrong. Please just let this thread die, niether side can be won!

That's what I am saying. No, of course I cannot 'prove' that your belief is wrong- I am not trying to. I understand where you are coming from. You believe that homosexuality is 'immoral' and is 'a defilement to the sanctity of marriage' and is 'corrupting society'. That is fine, you are more than allowed to believe this. However, as is obvious, homosexuals do not believe, nor care, that you believe all this. That is the beauty of America. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. And, so long as you are not infringing the rights of other citizens, you are allowed to abide by these beliefs.

What I am saying, and what you seem to refuse to acknowledge, is why homosexuals should not be allowed a State-issued marriage beyond your religious or subjective moral beliefs. What if I am a Hindu? Should my religious beliefs be banned because it goes against your personal morals and beliefs?


It isn't "my beliefs/morals/ideas against your belifs/morals/ideas." It isn't that at all. It is your beliefs/morals/ideas against the rights/freedoms/choices all American's are allowed. I dont care what your opinions are. This is about what a person is allowed to do with their own private lives underneath the law. And your beliefs ARE NOT to subjugate what another citizen should be able to do with their love.

[sam_the_man]

alright, how do you propose the aids transferred from the monkeys to the human population? "heterosexual" men dont **** monkeys last time i checked.

So now, the "straight man" has to pay for something he dont deserve, just for living life naturally.

[Kuzmich]

Ah. gay man don't **** monkeys either, they **** other gay men. By the way aids came from drug addicts.