Worst moment in US history?

[shadow_man1024]

alien and sedition acts were pretty bad and were unconstitutionale(DAMN YOU 2ND PRESENT FOR MAKEING IT)

[bamthedoc]

Yep, there goes "King Andrew" and more hatred for him

I'd say either Andrew Jackson or Uliseus Grant were the worst presidents of all time. Why? "King Andrew" in-of-itself is enough of an explaination Grant... He cruelly punished the South for rebelling. Abraham Lincoln said "forgive" them and "move on" by helping the South recover. Grant impossed a huge ammount of taxes on the South, forcing them to pay for all the expenses of the war when they South was, essentially, broke.

[Gedrin]

I disagree with the every last woman and child line. It is not so unreasonable to believe that a soldier will give their life to smite their enemy, but civilians won't liekly do it for no good reason.

The reason that we dropped the bomb was to intimidate Russia who had already invaded the mainland in Japan.

This was a civilian target and people continue to die from cancer from those bombings today. Just like people in Iraq will continue to die for years due to all of the depleted uranium shells we used in Iraq in this last war. A more effective but unnecessary weapon.

[Kuzmich]

Your intimidation didn't really work well we tested our nuke 2 months after you tested yours. My great-grandfather was in one of the air born divisions that invaded Japan, good man he was, but age gets everyone of us.

[ORC-r0x0r-ROC]

what did u test it on? japaneese civilians? like america = / yeah yeah i know there were other tests but this really "tested" what the media would think.

[bamthedoc]

Uh... The US tested our first atomic bomb in the desersts of Nevada -- or an island...

As for "every last woman and child line", it's called understanding how psycology of a culture has changed in just fifty years.

[Lights]

Originally posted by ORC-r0x0r-ROC
what did u test it on? japaneese civilians? like america = /

Are you refering to Hiroshima? Hope not, I hope you arent that foolish. In no way was the atomic bomb drop a "test." It was done because we believed, at the time, that it would be the most quick and painless end to the war. Had we not dropped the bomb, perhaps there would have been a different outcome? Probably not, but there was definantly less life lost, from both sides.

Test?!? HA!


I would have to say the invasion of Veitnam was the worst moment/decision. Complete stupidity on our leaderships part :\

[Kuzmich]

Still you killed them without honor, they died like dogs, they didn't have a chance to fight back, Japanese as people deserved that chance but you stripped them of it. On the other hand if you haven't dropped that bomb then my great grandfather who was fighting during Russian invasion of Japan might have been killed, and that would lead to me not being born. World isn't black and white most of it is grey, every action has its positive and negative consiquences. We must learn to understand this, there is no such thing as pure evil or pure good.

[amrtin77]

if you want something done and nothing else works, you dont give your enemy a "chance." anything is fair, you use force, and MAKE THEM do what you want. we wanted to end the war and we did. was it right? thats a matter of opinion. when you go to war, you dont "give your enemy a chance"

[Kuzmich]

You ended war with Japan, we ended war with Germany, but we gave Germans the chnce of defending themselves, you however did not do the same to Japanese.

[amrtin77]

god in war you ARE NOT supposed to "give the enemy a chance" war by its nature means ALL ELSE HAS FAILED, and anything goes. war is not a pretty thing, and russia cannot take credit for beating germany. no one country can. the brits did a hell of a job fighting germany before we came in. russians on the east, americans brits canadians and everyone on the west, americans at the south.

i garuntee that if the russians had a way to beat germany without giving them a chance they would. ANYONE WOULD. war is not meant for honor, its there to get something done. giving your enemy a fighting chance hurts your chances of getting whatever it is you want done.

[Lights]

All's fair in love and war. 'Nuff said

[Kuzmich]

Well, who took Berlin? US, or UK dont think so it was Russia, and if not for as you would have your asses smoked by panzer devisions. We did end the war with Germany the key word here is end, we took Berlin and Germans surrendered. And dont forget that US wasnt the only one attacking Japan Russia was there also. You ended the war in the most cowardly way possible, no you try to make excuses.

[Lights]

Lets not start this arguement please. The war could not have been won without the entire allied force, no matter what anyone says. Everyone put just as much effort into the war and we all worked together to achieve victory.

Cowardly? I would watch your mouth...

[Quest]

All is Fair in love and war... just ask the UN. Did Japan give China a "chance". I think what we did to Japan was for the best. kill alot of people in 2 nuke strikes, or sweep though japan and cause massive casualites on both sides. http://www.ratatak.com/modules/news....php?storyid=52
this is what japan did to china

[shutupandgoaway]

Otmorosk,I agree that the Russian army is a very good one. I also would say that it is pathetic strategy to give you enemy a chance to fight back. If you can avoid having to put men in harm's way, any decent tactician will tell you that you most definetly should. Honor in warfare is an antiquated concept; unless we go back to running at each other with pikes and swords, honor is dead.

[amrtin77]

Well, who took Berlin? US, or UK dont think so it was Russia, and if not for as you would have your asses smoked by panzer devisions. We did end the war with Germany the key word here is end, we took Berlin and Germans surrendered. And dont forget that US wasnt the only one attacking Japan Russia was there also. You ended the war in the most cowardly way possible, no you try to make excuses.

no, your being a ****ing idiot. i never said nuking japan was the right thing to do. i only said it was the quickest way out with the least casualties on both sides. no excuses here.


yes, the russians did take berlin everyone knows that. without the russians we most likely wouldnt have won the war, or it would have at least taken a lot longer. one way or the other though, i think that after dday and we were in german occupied territory we could have won even if they concentrated all their forces on us. all im saying is no one country can claim credit for the allied and russian victory in world war two. the major turning point was when america and russia entered, but we came in pretty late. what about all those people who died fighting while we were just sitting there watching it all?

[Kuzmich]

we came in in 1940, it was like a year after the war started, and i never said that Russia can claim all the credit, i said that we have ended the war with Germany, after we took Berlin there was no more fighting.

[amrtin77]

war starts in 1939

united stated and russia enter in 1941

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/start.html
heres a nice timeline for you

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/Europe09.html
the end of the war.

you see? it took everyone to bring down germany.


http://www.ratatak.com/modules/news/...php?storyid=52
aaron (quest) i think this is the link your lookin for.

[bamthedoc]

If the USSR didn't recieve arms from the US, they would not have been a threatening force. If the Nazis hadn't divided their attention, they could have wallopped the Russians considering the condition their army was in.

Stalin had to use threats and terror to get his men to fight for him, killing many civilians just to make a point. He then realized, in a fit of sanity, that he needed more arms to face the Nazis. Stalin and FDR made a deal. USSR helps the US and UK move in faster (i.e. take the Western Front) and the US gives the USSR army weapons.

The US army was divided on three fronts and providing arms to over three-fourths of the armies involved in the war. HELLO!! The USSR couldn't do much of anything without General Winter and US arms. Could the US and UK have won without the USSR? It would take longer, but yes. Could the USSR have won without the US? Nope.

Hitler "hurried" up his operations in the USSR when the US got involved, and that doomed that front to failure. He stretched his supply lines and his forces. He stopped sending support to the Southern Front, which the US quickly conqured. He then sent all his forces to the Easter and Western Fronts. The US, UK, allied nations taken by Nazi Germany, and the USSR pincer attacked Berlin. If not for the pincer attack, either side would have failed at that point in time!