Forgiveness

[Roach Of Discord]

Ok, I guess I watch a lot of news..mainly when I'm bored. Anyway, something I've noticed for quite awhile struck me today...and it got me thinking.

I've seen so many families out there who are victims of crimes. Some have had loved ones raped, murdered...etc, yet they aren't angry about it. Infact, they forgive the person that committed the crime. Just recently a little girl was murdered..swiped out from her own back yard and killed. They found the guy that did this, and the brother and father of this little girl were on the news stating that they held no anger towards this man...and that god wants them to forgive him.

Well, that may just sound great to some, but I think it's pretty messed up..and says something about society. Sure, holding anger and pain all your life isn't good..but is it really better (or healthy) to dumb down society and create this emotionless mess? I'm not sure if religions other than Christianity teach this strong sense of forgiveness...but to me, it seems so irrational and wrong. I can tell you...that if someone killed one of my family members, I would be pissed off. I would hate that person. Granted..I'm a rather logical individual -- even against the death penalty, but I can GUARANTEE that I would be holding some real anger. Besides, isn't that normal? Shouldn't you be angry? Does the person that killed your family member even deserve your forgiveness?

So I guess that brings me to these questions for this thread: Do you think it's healthy to simply forgive someone who truly wronged you in such a horrible way? Would YOU forgive a person that murdered someone you loved?

To me -- emotions are important. I don't think it's healthy to neglect your true feelings and emotions. I also don't think it's healthy to use god to make everything better...because sometimes, just sometimes..*gasp*..it's appropriate to be pissed off. I guess it's more convenient and easy to pawn a horrible tragedy off on the idea of a loving god that makes everything better. Sadly though..it really dumbs everything down..and it almost makes these horrible acts look disgustingly insignificant; as if it's no big deal -- sure she was killed, but she's with Jesus now! Like I said..I don't think these criminals deserve forgiveness; and more importantly, the poeple who have been wronged deserve and should get angry. Besides, aren't emotions what supposably make us human?

Anyway, thoughts pl0x.

[Laharl]

Put simply? "No rest, no mercy, no matter what!". I stand by it. I do not forgive those who attack, or try to harm me. I do not forget. It gives them a chance to repeat.

Directly attacking things I create, or care about, is only a step below. I value the work I do nearly as much as I value myself.

I'm the sort of person who would take a bullet to protect his masterpiece.

[Bret]

I haven't lost any family members or loved ones to a murderer. I don't know how I would react.

Would I forgive them. Yes. My beliefs are that if I can forgive others for sins against me God can forgive sins against him. But those are my beliefs.
Again, as it stands right now, I would forgive them. But I would be filled with a lot of hate and anger and sadness.
I guess, if I wasn't there and the criminal got arrested I wouldn't touch the man. But if I could do something to stop it I would ( I promise you all ) I would decapitate that man in such a way I would probably go to prison.

Do I think its weird or even wrong that they are so forgiving? No. As in the movie Leviathan. (As corny as it was) I remember a quote, "You deal with it your way. I'll deal with it mine." I'm sure these people are sad, and angry, but I don't think they want to live with both hate and sadness.

[Tipsy]

How does anger help the situation? Regardless of whether or not one is angry, there will still probably be 'justice'. Whether or not one is forgiven, the court system still has the responsibility to hold the person to the same standard to punish those who have broken the law. If you want to bring Christianity into the equation, forgiveness is present at [arguably] the most significant part of the Bible. When Jesus is crucified he doesn't shout out "f*ck you n*ggers", he says "farther, forgive them, they know not what they do." Personally, I don't think that makes the crucification and, in Christian belief, the salvation of humanity less significant. Or in this situation, the death of a loved one. In principal I agree with this idea completely, however in practice I seriously doubt that I would be able to not be angry.

[Roach Of Discord]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

How does anger help the situation? Regardless of whether or not one is angry, there will still probably be 'justice'. Whether or not one is forgiven, the court system still has the responsibility to hold the person to the same standard to punish those who have broken the law. If you want to bring Christianity into the equation, forgiveness is present at [arguably] the most significant part of the Bible. When Jesus is crucified he doesn't shout out "f*ck you n*ggers", he says "farther, forgive them, they know not what they do." Personally, I don't think that makes the crucification and, in Christian belief, the salvation of humanity less significant. Or in this situation, the death of a loved one. In principal I agree with this idea completely, however in practice I seriously doubt that I would be able to not be angry.

I think that's the point. How could you NOT get angry? I'm not saying it necessarily helps the situation, but isn't it human to be angry over something like that? To me, NOT being angry is completely unnatural, and if we turn this society into a place where murder and death is simply shrugged off..and no one feels anything about it..it seems like we strip our selves of our own natural emotions. To me, that just can't be a good thing.

I don't know..it seems like yet another thing to make people even more desensitized. It just seems natural to be angry over something like that..and when I hear it..I always think "how can you NOT be angry?..your kid was killed..". I just find the idea of immediate forgiveness irrational and manufactured.

[N[U]TS]

well from my perspective getting pissed and wanting to kill or actually killing the person who commited the horrible crime wont bring your loved one back. By simply forgiving the person you may obtain peace.


*edit*
one of my quotes comes in handy for this situation.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
- Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

the aristotle quote could be used here too but the one by samuel is more fitting.

[Roach Of Discord]

Originally Posted by N[u]TS

well from my perspective getting pissed and wanting to kill or actually killing the person who commited the horrible crime wont bring your loved one back. By simply forgiving the person you may obtain peace.


*edit*
one of my quotes comes in handy for this situation.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
- Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

the aristotle quote could be used here too but the one by samuel is more fitting.

I agree, but that's logical thinking. If your kid got killed, I'd think you wouldn't be that logical. I dunno, maybe that's just me.

Would you immediately forgive someone and feel no anger if someone killed a person you loved though?

[Tipsy]

Do the two have to be mutually exclusive? Anger is an emotion and forgiveness is a more of a choice than something we simply feel. Some people just simply have a faith strong enough to be that logical about it. I mean, I wouldn't think that people could believe in 7 day creationism from faith, but some people are simply that dedicated to whatever they believe. Then again, some people just say what they believe is the right thing to do even though they really are angry and not forgiving the person.

[DwightSchrute]

can you truly forgive someone for something such as murder without any form of judgment? in Christianity, your supposed to forgive trespasses made against you but wouldn't that require a minimal amount of judgment to make the choice to actually forgive a person? do u understand what im asking?

[Renzokuken]

Who's to say that those who were once victims didn't get angry? Just because they eventually chose to forgive doesn't mean they weren't angry in the first place.

I am a Christian, and if i lost one of my close friends or family to a criminal i'd find it very hard to forgive him/her. I guess it differs from person to person.

[N[U]TS]

It is in our nature to feel these feelings yet they are not necessary in todays society since we have courts to issue punishments. *off topic* Though recently the system hasnt been up to par. Example a man was let go recently from charges of raping a child just because no interpreter was found to translate his tribal language. Later to be found out he can speak english quite well.


I havnt had a loved one killed by another so I honestly couldnt tell you how I would react exactly. It could be one of two things. I could become enranged and wish to harm the person which would probably be a normal reaction. Two I could become so enranged that I have a nervous break down and ball by eyes out. I will be the first to admit that heh. Some people just handle situations better than others.

[Roach Of Discord]

Originally Posted by Renzokuken

Who's to say that those who were once victims didn't get angry? Just because they eventually chose to forgive doesn't mean they weren't angry in the first place.

I am a Christian, and if i lost one of my close friends or family to a criminal i'd find it very hard to forgive him/her. I guess it differs from person to person.

That's true. It would be easier over time.

Although...not sure if you guys heard about the Zina Linnik case..but that was the girl around here who was murdered. The family (well, father and son) were on the news the next day saying they forgive him and had no anger. That's what some-what sparked the idea for me to make this thread. I don't get how anyone could forgive someone that quick. I guess faith is a powerful thing... I'd have trouble forgiving them at all.

..but that's true, it differs from person to person.

[Lizardbreath]

I am very non-religious right now and it would be very hard to forgive somebody who killed my family member or a personal friend. Sometimes people feel that forgiving the person who committed the crime helps them to move on.....It's a matter of preference.

[N[U]TS]

Originally Posted by Roach Of Discord

That's true. It would be easier over time.

Although...not sure if you guys heard about the Zina Linnik case..but that was the girl around here who was murdered. The family (well, father and son) were on the news the next day saying they forgive him and had no anger. That's what some-what sparked the idea for me to make this thread. I don't get how anyone could forgive someone that quick. I guess faith is a powerful thing... I'd have trouble forgiving them at all.

..but that's true, it differs from person to person.

yes I heard of that story on the news while I was eating in the kitchen one day. This is how I get my daily dosage of news since my dad watches it 24/7.

[Renzokuken]

Originally Posted by Roach Of Discord

That's true. It would be easier over time.

Although...not sure if you guys heard about the Zina Linnik case..but that was the girl around here who was murdered. The family (well, father and son) were on the news the next day saying they forgive him and had no anger. That's what some-what sparked the idea for me to make this thread. I don't get how anyone could forgive someone that quick. I guess faith is a powerful thing... I'd have trouble forgiving them at all.

..but that's true, it differs from person to person.

No offense to those guys, but that's pretty ****ed up. A family member of theirs was murdered and they just forgave the guy like that. Sounds like someone is bottling their feelings, imo.

[N[U]TS]

Originally Posted by Renzokuken

No offense to those guys, but that's pretty ****ed up. A family member of theirs was murdered and they just forgave the guy like that. Sounds like someone is bottling their feelings, imo.

Sounds like they have willpower.

[little-cheeze]

jesus said forgive and forget

[Bret]

Originally Posted by little-cheeze

jesus said forgive and forget

I don't think he put it quite like that. But he did say love your enemy as you do your neighbor. Then I believe he said something to the effect of, love your neighbor as you love yourself. So, logic would suggest, love your enemy as you love yourself.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Magical Trevor

Put simply? "No rest, no mercy, no matter what!". I stand by it. I do not forgive those who attack, or try to harm me. I do not forget. It gives them a chance to repeat.

Directly attacking things I create, or care about, is only a step below. I value the work I do nearly as much as I value myself.

I'm the sort of person who would take a bullet to protect his masterpiece.

I stick with him.

[little-cheeze]

true i agree with magcal trevor